Rosetta may be that failed actor from Greece who keeps re-appearing here every few months. Previous usernames were Kissing Lions, Thessalo-niki, and some others.
Greek and Bulgarian Music and culture
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostRosetta may be that failed actor from Greece who keeps re-appearing here every few months. Previous usernames were Kissing Lions, Thessalo-niki, and some others.Last edited by Makedonska_Kafana; 05-29-2011, 09:43 PM.
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The construction and adoption of musical instruments is a very interesting topic.
Davul is the Turkish word for a drum appearing in the area covering Iran, Iraq, Armenia, Turkey and all the Balkans (Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia).
Zurna is usually attributed to Armenians covers a wider area that the one mentioned before.
I’ve never heard of tulum (it’s a kind of gaida?)
Romaic/Roman was the name for (common) Greek language. When Hellenic was mentioned distinctly from Roman it would probably refer to Bible, ecclesiastical, official (semi-archaic) language. Usually the terms were used interchangeably. If it was 50% Turkish you would understand half of it. You may have found it as a blanket term for all local idioms (including the ones with heavy Turkish influence) but this is not the appropriate definition of Romaic.
I was under the impression it was the Caramanledes that had fully adopted Turkish language (in Greek alphabet) and the Cappadocians were speaking this hybrid. Maybe these two categories are too generic.
The pre-Ottoman era is interesting, but I was mostly questioning if the term Christian Turk would apply e.g. in the 19th Century.
I understand that after Ottoman domination, one could convert from Christian to Islam, but not vice versa. I don’t mean he would have no reason to do so, I mean he would be decapitated (according to the Islamic law). Thus, the Christian community would be shrinking, but it stayed untouched from foreign mixes for more than 400 years. The first Cappadocian song (Leylalum) is exclusively danced and sung by women, and, I believe, speaks derogatory for Arabs and their women. Were Muslim women dancing?
The Gagauz people fought bravely against the Ottomans in the Russian-Turkish wars. I believe the ones that came in Greece originally lived in Eastern Thrace and (like Pontians) were fanatic Greeks.
Originally posted by Onur View PostI saw these names of Pontian dances from your link;
Tik, Ters, Tas, Almatsouk, Giurvalandun, Karsilamas, Tsurtuguzus, Dolme, Utsai, Sarikuz.
I found a list of Pontian dances in Greece as follows: Aneforitsa, Apo pan ke kat, Armatsouk, Atsapat, Yetiere, Yiourvaladun, Etaire, Kotsari, Kizela, Mantilia, Utsai, Omal, Sera, Titara Argyroupolis, Tik mono, Trygona, Tsurtuguzus, Hala
Yes, for instance, pyrrichios (fire dance) is the most famous case of an ancient war dance, that is described in detail by Homer and Xenophon and was popular in Greece from Crete to Pontus. We don’t consider it a Turkish dance and the closest modern equivalent can be found in the Pontian dances (specifically the one called serra) and probably some Cretan dances.
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Makedonska_Kafana
Alona is not close to Armensko. It IS Armensko.
Xino Nero= Vrbeni = Eksi Sou
I’ve never been on Macedonians-on-the-web as a member or even a systematic reader, I’ve only been in maknews and imdb-politics.
Who the hell is Soula?
Soldier of Macedon,
Yes, I’m afraid it’s me again. My previous names were: Thessaloniki, Thessalonikefs, Thessalo-niki, Triandria, AriadniTr, A-Lion-The-Kiss, Akzion, Moon Tiki, ennea
Which means that this is (or was) my 10th time, though it wasn’t my intention to enter the Guinness book.
I’m not a failed actor (in case you were speaking literally).
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Originally posted by rosetta View PostMakedonska_Kafana
Alona is not close to Armensko. It IS Armensko.Last edited by Makedonska_Kafana; 05-30-2011, 04:51 PM.
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Soula why are you a try-hard Greek, does your day hit you with the stick to try and beat the Macedonian in you and make you put on a Greek mask. We are here to help you Razbiras?Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле „Страшниот Чакаларов“ „гркоубиец“ и „крвожеден комитаџија“.
„Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море.“ Васил Чакаларов
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It means do you understand - your a classic Pushkar all ways switching between Macedonian and Greek.Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле „Страшниот Чакаларов“ „гркоубиец“ и „крвожеден комитаџија“.
„Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море.“ Васил Чакаларов
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Macedonian Wedding (1960) (22') (in three parts: 9', 10' and 3')
‪Μακεδονικός Γάμος (1/3) - Βελβεντό 1960‬‏ - YouTube
‪Μακεδονικός Γάμος (2/3) - Βελβεντό 1960‬‏ - YouTube
‪Μακεδονικός Γάμος (3/3) - Βελβεντό 1960‬‏ - YouTube
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Originally posted by rosetta View PostSoldier of Macedon,
Yes, I’m afraid it’s me again. My previous names were: Thessaloniki, Thessalonikefs, Thessalo-niki, Triandria, AriadniTr, A-Lion-The-Kiss, Akzion, Moon Tiki, ennea
Which means that this is (or was) my 10th time, though it wasn’t my intention to enter the Guinness book.
I’m not a failed actor (in case you were speaking literally).
Interesting clips by the way, Macedonian music cannot be mistaken, it is a part of Macedonian culture and is native to the Macedonian regions (all of them), this sort of music isn't native to Athens or elsewhere in Greece. Too bad it isn't complimented and accompanied by Macedonian words like it naturally should be.
What does authentic Greek music from Macedonia sound like? Or is it just simply Macedonian music with Greek words, like the clips above?In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostToo bad it isn't complimented and accompanied by Macedonian words like it naturally should be.
What does authentic Greek music from Macedonia sound like? Or is it just simply Macedonian music with Greek words, like the clips above?
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostWhat does authentic Greek music from Macedonia sound like? Or is it just simply Macedonian music with Greek words, like the clips above?Last edited by cultea; 07-24-2011, 01:06 AM.
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Originally posted by Onur View PostSOM, what is the reason of it? I think i`ve read here b4 that it`s because of the Greek oppression upon these people but it`s difficult to believe. I mean yes, they would have preferred to hide their language in earlier times but why they are still muted today? For example, Anatolian immigrants sings in Turkish in their cultural gatherings since 1990s but afaik, they were singing only in Greek b4, never Turkish.
Originally posted by culteaWell, you can look at this very same thread at my posts #11,#13,#21 and the link of #146.
Originally posted by Sir GeorgeIt all sounds Turkish to me...In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostToo bad it isn't complimented and accompanied by Macedonian words like it naturally should be.
Originally posted by Onur View PostSOM, what is the reason of it? I think I’ve read here b4 that it’s because of the Greek oppression upon these people but it`s difficult to believe. I mean yes, they would have preferred to hide their language in earlier times but why they are still muted today? For example, Anatolian immigrants sings in Turkish in their cultural gatherings since 1990s but afaik, they were singing only in Greek b4, never Turkish.
Originally posted by SirGeorge8600 View PostIt all sounds Turkish to me...
Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostNo, they are Macedonian songs with Greek words. The music and tunes are clearly recognised as being of the Macedonian style. I am talking about authentic Greek music from Macedonia. Authentic doesn't mean exercising the culture of others by using your own words.
Your other question is impossible to be answered. Even in cases where we know when, where and why a song was written (e.g. "Gerakina" in Nigrita, 1870s) it's not certain that it wasn't related to an older tune. Traditional music is (by default) written by unknown composers, often the village where it comes from is known.
For music of clear and undisputed origins you'll have to look to the music of 20th Century.Last edited by cultea; 07-25-2011, 10:28 AM.
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