Dedo Iljo Vojvoda fought with his 206 Macedonians!

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  • VMRO
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 1462

    #31
    Originally posted by Pelister View Post
    War-Lord (Leader) is much closer to the literal translation that "Duke". I just embelished it a little.

    But the picture on my avatar. I always thought it was Pop Berovski, but I've been told it is Ilija Maleshev. Can anyone help with that ?
    It's Dimitar Popgeorgiev Berovski, his old man must have been a popche.

    I do not believe Vojvoda was given as a title to implement "Warlord", yes it might translate that, however i believe it just means commander/leader.
    Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.

    Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.

    Comment

    • Rogi
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 2343

      #32
      It doesn't translate to 'Warlord', it translates to 'Duke'.
      That is the Macedonian to English translation and the English to Macedonian translation.

      Dimitar Popgeorgiev was the leader of the Krezna uprising.

      Comment

      • Prolet
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 5241

        #33
        Rogi is right, Vojvoda is the direct translation of Duke
        МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13670

          #34
          I have heard Kumiti being used also, I guess it depends on the dialect, just like some may say Samoil while others say Samuil.

          As for the term Voivoda, I don't know why some of you are so persistent on trying to prove that it is not a direct translation of War Leader or Warlord.
          Originally posted by Rogi
          That is the Macedonian to English translation and the English to Macedonian translation
          The dictionary can write whatever it wants today, the fact is, the word comes from two words combined together, Voi (War) Vod (Lead) - War Leader = Warlord in its most accurate and literal English translation. Perhaps because many military leaders formed part of the nobility and/or royal families (by selection or otherwise) during middle ages the term came to mean a Duke at some point, but I don't for a second believe that it was meant to be understood as Duke (as we understand it today) originally, nor even in later periods. As I said before, Piperka and Sugarev were not nobles and certainly didn't control any 'duchy'.

          In addition to this, the understanding that an English-speaking audience would have of Duke is not exactly the same as what a Macedonian-speaking audience would have of Voivoda. For example, when one hears Duke of Cornwall they think a leader of a duchy or province, a man of nobility or royalty, whereas if another hears Voivodata od Lerinsko, they may think of a leader but almost solely in an authorative and military sense, because after all, Voivoda means a Leader in War, War Leader; hence, Warlord.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            #35
            The wiki article has the following written:
            A duke is a member of the nobility, historically of highest rank below the monarch, and historically controlling a duchy. The title comes from the Latin Dux Bellorum, which had the sense of "military commander" and was employed by both the Germanic peoples themselves and by the Roman authors covering them to refer to their war leaders.
            That is a markedly different interpretation of the word Duke to what it stands for today to people who speak English. In my opinion, Duke sounds nicer to the English ear, a little less confronting and a little more diplomatic, but I prefer Warlord because it is more accurate. In times of peace when there is no need for strict or strong rule, it would be odd to refer to the Mayor of Bitola as the Voivoda od Bitola, because it implies a military element.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Pelister
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 2742

              #36
              Originally posted by Rogi View Post
              It doesn't translate to 'Warlord', it translates to 'Duke'.
              That is the Macedonian to English translation and the English to Macedonian translation.

              Dimitar Popgeorgiev was the leader of the Krezna uprising.
              Look I know what the dictionary says but it is not accurate.

              But a more accurate translation after a look at the root words in the term Voj'voda translate to "War Leader". Hence "War Lord".

              Comment

              • Rogi
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 2343

                #37
                Actually, it is more like 'Battle Leader', not 'War Leader'.

                Whatever the arguments that have been put forward, Duke is still more correct than Warlord.

                Comment

                • Soldier of Macedon
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 13670

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Rogi
                  Whatever the arguments that have been put forward, Duke is still more correct than Warlord.
                  That only reveals weakness in the point you are trying to make, because you fail to address any of the arguments you have so conveniently neglected with a single sweeping statement.

                  Battle Leader, Warrior Leader, War Leader, they are all best described in English as Warlord, especially in the context of how the Macedonians had applied these terms throughout history.
                  In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                  Comment

                  • Bratot
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2855

                    #39
                    I agree with Pelister about Voj-Voda, but in modern sense its derrivations have got the additional meaning - Voivodeship - adinistrative region or province, monarchy ruled. And often with some noble characteristic.

                    In our case that's not correct.
                    Last edited by Bratot; 12-23-2009, 10:11 AM.
                    The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                    Comment

                    • Bratot
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 2855

                      #40
                      Warlord:

                      a. A military commander exercising civil power in a region, whether in nominal allegiance to the national government or in defiance of it.

                      b. supreme military leader exercising civil power in a region especially one accountable to nobody when the central government is weak




                      Duke:

                      1. a nobleman of high rank: in the British Isles standing above the other grades of the nobility.
                      2. the prince or ruler of a small principality or duchy


                      From Latin - dux means Leader. Voj - voda = Voen vodac (vodac vo boj) = War/military leader
                      The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                      Comment

                      • Bratot
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2855

                        #41
                        Dedo Iljo took part in the Serbian lines, Russian and Bulgarian.

                        In short, in every possible war against the Ottomans.
                        The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13670

                          #42
                          As did Georgi Pulevski, it seems that our people helped their neighbours during struggles for liberty, and in return for that support they tore our lands apart.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Pelister
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 2742

                            #43
                            Originally posted by Bratot View Post
                            Dedo Iljo took part in the Serbian lines, Russian and Bulgarian.

                            In short, in every possible war against the Ottomans.
                            He was a legend.

                            For an excellent account of Dedo Ilija (Maleshevci) read "Macedonia and Macedonians in the Eastern Crisis" by Manol Pandevski. There is a copy available in English.

                            Comment

                            • Daskalot
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 4345

                              #44
                              This topic needs a good healthy bump!
                              Macedonian Truth Organisation

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13670

                                #45
                                Song about Iljo Maleshevski:

                                Proviknal se Iljo Maleshevski - YouTube
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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