The Miladinov Brothers & Macedonian Literature - 19th Century

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  • Liberator of Makedonija
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 1595

    Victor Friedman's chronology of the modern Macedonian language:

    I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

    Comment

    • Liberator of Makedonija
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2014
      • 1595

      Kuzman Šapkarev:

      I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

      Comment

      • Liberator of Makedonija
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2014
        • 1595

        The magazine, Loza
        I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

        Comment

        • Liberator of Makedonija
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2014
          • 1595

          I know this isn't 19th century but this is still the best thread for literature I believe.

          A primer written by Maro Teodorovic, born in Bansko. Published in Vienna in 1792. Would appreciate if anyone was able to translate or give greater information on the author and/or publication.

          I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

          Comment

          • Liberator of Makedonija
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2014
            • 1595

            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
            This was before the Exarchate was established, when the Macedonians and Orthodox Slavs of Bulgaria worked in unison under the umbrella term of 'Bulgarians' or 'Slavic Bulgarians' against the encroaching Romaic-speaking clergy of the Rum Millet:
            Are Patriarchate services still held in Romaic? If not, when did they stop utilising the language?
            I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

            Comment

            • Carlin
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 3332

              Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
              I know this isn't 19th century but this is still the best thread for literature I believe.

              A primer written by Maro Teodorovic, born in Bansko. Published in Vienna in 1792. Would appreciate if anyone was able to translate or give greater information on the author and/or publication.

              According to Bulgarian Wikipedia entry on Marko Teodorovich, it says that he was born around 1760 in Bansko. He graduated from a Greek secular school. He dealt with cotton trade and went to Vienna.

              He opened commercial offices in Serres, Belgrade and Vienna.

              In 1792 he published a Church Slavic primer, which is what you posted. It was printed in the printing house of the Serbian Stefan Novakovic in Vienna (we see his name towards the end of the cover page). In the primer it is noted it is in Slavic (not Serbian or Bulgarian). On the cover page, it is also stated that the publisher is "a Bulgarian by birth, from Razlog".

              This book was actually ordered and paid for by the Serbs in Vienna to teach the Serbian children. He was known as a well educated man who knew Russian and Church Slavic, and so the Serbs ordered the textbook. Marko Teodorovich predicts the book will serve the Bulgarian schools as well.

              URL:

              Comment

              • Chicho Makedonski
                Junior Member
                • Feb 2019
                • 47

                The Miladinov brothers are controversial and highlight how confusing ottoman times were for the Macedonians and others but especially the Macedonians due to having less power than their neighbours and being constantly ruled by different foreign empires which all strived to make Macedonia their land. Sadly these peoples being the Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbians all still wanted to make Macedonia their land during ottoman times.

                The Miladinov’s supposedly supported the establishment of Bulgarian churches and schools in Macedonia as they called Macedonia west Bulgaria at times and called themselves ‘west Bulgarians’ because they were worried that with the name Macedonia it will tempt the Greeks to take Macedonia and make it greek with a Greek speaking majority. This is why they supported the Bulgarian churches/schools to open in Macedonia as they preferred to have churches/schools with a more slavic language opposed to Greek as a way to showcase that Macedonia is more ‘slavic speaking’ than Greek, also because the Macedonians spoke a more ‘slavic’ language since 6th century AD.

                They called themselves Bulgarians as ‘Bulgarian’ was synonymous with ‘slavic speaker’ in ottoman times, obviously leftover terminology from the Bulgarian empires that temporarily controlled Macedonia. The Miladinov’s also called themselves ‘west Bulgarians’ as a way to say that they are from ‘west Bulgaria’ which is not true but because they called Macedonia ‘west Bulgaria’ at times this is why they called themselves ‘west Bulgarians’.

                The Miladinov’s are controversial figures they created Bulgarian and Macedonian folklore with the title being ‘Bulgarian National Songs’ and supposedly went to Russia to pay homage to their ‘Bulgarian ancestors’, yet never had any songs about national ethnic Bulgarian icons but had songs about national ethnic Macedonian icons such as Alexander the Great. This shows they were also weary of their ethnic Macedonian icons and heritage regardless of what they called themselves during the confusing ethnic mess of the Ottoman Empire which silenced national belief. Even if the Miladinov’s thought of the ancient Macedonians as ‘slavic speakers’ and thus sang songs about them, they never sang songs about any ‘slavic speaking’ ethnic Bulgarians.

                Very confusing times. They were strong ethnic Bulgarian sympathisers and saw the ethnic Bulgarians as allies then as they both opposed the Greek idea of making Macedonia a Greek land with a Greek speaking majority. They used the term ‘Bulgarian’ to emphasise their slavic language/culture opposed to Greek and also possibly in a national sense as they supposedly went to Russia to pay homage to their ‘Bulgarian ancestors’, but this could’ve been through being strong ethnic Bulgarian sympathisers and wanting help from ethnic Bulgarians to oppose Greek efforts in making Macedonia ‘Greek’ opposed to more ‘slavic’.

                The use of the term ‘Bulgarian’ in ottoman Macedonia was simply the norm at times and didn’t have an ethnic meaning for the most part. Although the Macedonian national consciousness was not active on a wider public scale during the 1800’s, the Macedonians celebrated and sang songs about people of whom the Macedonians always regarded to be of ethnic Macedonian origin and who were known to be ethnic Macedonians, regardless if they thought of them to be ‘slavic speakers’ it shows the Macedonians never forgot their heritage as the songs and beliefs were passed down orally from generation to generation.
                Last edited by Chicho Makedonski; 06-19-2019, 07:35 AM.

                Comment

                • Carlin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3332

                  Rayko Zhinzifov

                  Rayko Zhinzifov or Rajko Žinzifov (15 February 1839 – 15 February 1877), born Ksenofont Dzindzifi (Ксенофонт Дзиндзифи).

                  Zhinzifov was born in 1839 into a Graecophile Aromanian family in Veles in the Ottoman Empire, today in North Macedonia. He initially studied Greek in Prilep at his father's school. In 1856, he was already an assistant teacher in Prilep at Dimitar Miladinov's school and a teacher in Kukush afterwards.



                  Рајко Жинзифов (роден како Ксенофонт Ѕинѕифи; Велес, 15 февруари 1839 - 15 февруари 1877, Москва) — познат македонски преродбеник од влашко потекло и дводомен писател и поет. Бил сестран деец — публицист, преведувач и собирач на народно творештво.

                  Роден во Велес во влашко гркоманско семејство по потекло од Москополе (јужна Албанија), а доселено во Велес од Битола. Татко му Јоан Ѕинѕифи имал завршено медицински факултет во Атина, но работел како грчки фанариотски учител во Велес.

                  Comment

                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    The oldest examples of Macedonian folk song were recorded by the Austrian archpriest Sylvester in Kostur (Aegean Macedonia) in the sixteenth century.

                    They were published only relatively recently by Ciro Giannelli and André Vaillant (1958).

                    URL:

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15658

                      Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                      The oldest examples of Macedonian folk song were recorded by the Austrian archpriest Sylvester in Kostur (Aegean Macedonia) in the sixteenth century.

                      They were published only relatively recently by Ciro Giannelli and André Vaillant (1958).

                      URL:
                      https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/b...=1&isAllowed=y
                      This was utterly fascinating Carlin. Thank you.
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Liberator of Makedonija
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2014
                        • 1595

                        This is the front page from Kiril Pejčinoviḱ's Огледало (Mirror, 1816). If I am not mistaken, the underlined section says "written in the Bulgarian language of the Lower Mysians". I find this just really interesting how he has identified his own people in this text (Pejčinoviḱ was from Tearce, Tetovsko). It is strange as Mysia was a region of ancient Anatolia, so I thought perhaps Pejčinoviḱ is making reference to the old Roman province of Moesia Inferior (could be interpreted as Lower Moesia) but this was located on the northern coast of the Black Sea. Moesia Superior (Upper Moesia) however did cover some territory in Macedonia.

                        I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                        Comment

                        • VMRO
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 1462

                          Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                          This is the front page from Kiril Pejčinoviḱ's Огледало (Mirror, 1816). If I am not mistaken, the underlined section says "written in the Bulgarian language of the Lower Mysians". I find this just really interesting how he has identified his own people in this text (Pejčinoviḱ was from Tearce, Tetovsko). It is strange as Mysia was a region of ancient Anatolia, so I thought perhaps Pejčinoviḱ is making reference to the old Roman province of Moesia Inferior (could be interpreted as Lower Moesia) but this was located on the northern coast of the Black Sea. Moesia Superior (Upper Moesia) however did cover some territory in Macedonia.

                          Something else that is strange but dates back to Samuils empire is the labelling of Samuils soldiers as Mysians & Scythians.

                          Might be something to do with the terminology used during the Byzantine time where labels were thrown around and also depending the source Pejcinovic actually received his knowledge from to apply those types of labels.



                          Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.

                          Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.

                          Comment

                          • Liberator of Makedonija
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 1595

                            Originally posted by VMRO View Post
                            Something else that is strange but dates back to Samuils empire is the labelling of Samuils soldiers as Mysians & Scythians.

                            Might be something to do with the terminology used during the Byzantine time where labels were thrown around and also depending the source Pejcinovic actually received his knowledge from to apply those types of labels.



                            I feel a lot of the terms that emerged in the 19th centuries are rooted in the Middle Ages. Still wonder how these terms appeared and how they were used? What did they mean?

                            Also, where is the source from VMRO?
                            I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                            Comment

                            • VMRO
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 1462

                              Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                              I feel a lot of the terms that emerged in the 19th centuries are rooted in the Middle Ages. Still wonder how these terms appeared and how they were used? What did they mean?

                              Also, where is the source from VMRO?
                              It is from Mitko Panov's book - Blinded state
                              Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.

                              Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.

                              Comment

                              • Carlin
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 3332

                                There is a thread "Inscriptions at St. Sophia (Ohrid)" where there are similar terms / examples being discussed.

                                Interesting that Gregory Akindynos a native of Prilep, was referred to as being of Mysian race.

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