Allan Upward - East end of Europe, 1908.

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13670

    Allan Upward - East end of Europe, 1908.

    This particular individual shows considerable bias against the Macedonians in his writings, and speaks with negative overtones, in support of certain propagandas while at the same time being remarkably contradicting. He is also speaks with a manner suggestive of a man with all the knowledge in the world, yet fails (or ignores) to highlight historical facts which are essential where it concerns the topics being discussed.

    In order to justify the annexation of the entire territory between Bulgaria and the sea, therefore, it became necessary to create a fictitious country with a fictitious nationality. To return to the former illustration, we must imagine an independant Irish Republic desirous of adding the whole of Scotland to its dominion. It would be obliged, in the first place, to teach the Gaelic population that they were Irishmen, in order to enlist their support, and then to preach that Scotland was an invisible whole in order to establish a claim over the low lands..........
    Here it speaks of the methods Bulgaria used in their aim to absorb Macedonia and the Macedonian people, attached with a comparison in relation to the Celtic peoples of Ireland and Scotland. At the beginning Upward seems to be (falsely) implying that Bulgaria "created" the Macedonian nationality as a means to eventually absorbing Macedonian territory. However, later he compares this to how Ireland would have to convince the people of Scotland that they are 'Irishmen', should not the correct comparison be that Ireland would first have to "create" the Scottish nationality? The Macedonian identity in the modern era was in existence well before the establishment of the Bulgarian state, and this is evidenced by contemporary Bulgarian writers such as Slaveykov and co.
    It was possibly with a view to some such result that Gladstone threw out the phrase "Macedonia for the Macedonians", a phrase which, be it said with all respect, could not have been used by any man of impartiality and intelligence who possesed a first hand knowledge of the country..............
    As opposed to Upward's first hand "knowledge"? Heaven forbid. Upward is clearly one opposed to the idea of a Macedonian nationality as it goes against his own narrow way of understanding where it concerns issues in the Balkans. And despite his delusional opinions where it concerns the Macedonians, his own personal "first hand" experiences betray those very opinions, as on the occasion where he visited a Macedonian village:
    I asked him what language they spoke, and my Greek interpreter carelessly rendered the answer Bulgare. The man himself had said Makedonski. I drew attention to this word and the witness explained that he did not consider the rural dialect used in Macedonia the same as Bulgarian, and refused to call it by that name. It was Macedonian, a word to which he gave the Slav form of Makedonski, but which I was to hear farther north in the Greek form of Makedonike..............
    Regardless of the contradicting Greek and Bulgarian propaganda, the biased western opinions, at the end of the day the native speaks for himself, and he clearly calls his language Macedonian. It is called Makedonski in his own language and Makedonike in the Greek language, which is a testament to local 'Greek' acknowledgement of the name of the language.

    His thoughts on the Hellenes brings further confusion:
    I use the word Hellene not as a racial, nor even as a national designation. I use it in the classical sense of the word Hellenist, or Hellenising. I do not believe in the existence in our days of a pure Greek population; perhaps there never was such a population.........A Hellene is he who wishes to be thought a Greek, as Philip wished, and Alexander wished, and half the inhabitants of their vanished kingdom wish to-day. For the Slave it is promotion to become Greek, as it is promotion for the Hindu to become a Briton. The Hellene is he who deserves to be reckoned a Hellene, for the true Hellene is the pioneer of civilisation and the child of Light.
    Violin time, I wonder, is Upward making reference to all the Romaic-oglou peasants in a fez when he refers to the children of light and pioneers of civilisation? Or to the Albanians of Athens? Or the Vlachs of Thessaly? Or to somebody from 3,000 years ago? But doesn't he contest the continuity of the Greek people? So again, who is a 'Greek' or a 'Hellene', anybody who wishes to be. It's like a free for all snatch for plastic glory in this charade of (Neo) "Hellenism"............
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
  • El Bre
    Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 713

    #2
    Those British idiots wouldn't know their asses from a hole in the ground.

    Comment

    • Pelister
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 2742

      #3
      The British were heavily against an autonomous Macedonia and by this time (1908) being "politically correct" from a British point of view regarding the Macedonians usually meant two things; one, reference to the Macedonians "as Bulgarians" and at this time we begin to see Greece lobbying the British government for its right to invade and annex Macedonia.

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13670

        #4
        Originally posted by Svoliani
        Ill stick this here instead of the other thread

        In another thread you quoted Allan Upward, but you stopped short, left out some things , ill just post what you missed

        " Another fifth at the least is made up of Hellenes, who are so by blood, language, religion, and national sentiment, and of a race known as Vlachs , or KutzoVlachs, who speak a dialect half Greek and half Latin in character, but who are in sentiment more Hellenist than the Hellenes themselves. The remaining two fifths speak a Slav patios, which appears to resemble the Bulgarian more closely than the Servian, and until the recent strife arose they were generally content to be known as Bulgars"

        So 1/5 of the population are made up of Hellenes . Thats Me and Terra Nova he is referring to. The Greek speaking natives of Macedonia (the prosfygi didnt arrive yet). Not Vlachs , since he mentions them after. He notes that the Vlachs are more Hellenes than the Hellenes themselves, basically they are fanatical Greeks.
        The remaining 2/5 speak a slave patios which resembles Bulgarian, here he is talking about you and the rest of your buddies from Florina. The last sentence lets pretend we didnt see that.
        So 1/5 of the pop can not be 2%. Tell Risto to save his BS for another day, travellers tell it like it was.

        " A new impulse has been given to the spread of the Greek language, and the name Bulgar is being repudiated in favour of "Macedonian" "

        I did not add the quotation marks , thats how it is written.

        " And so the "Bulgarophone" villagers are no longer willing to admit that they speak Bulgarian. They have coined a new term of thier own accord and henceforth thier dialect, until they have got rid of it, is to be known as "Macedonian" .

        " He said that the Bulgarian bands had killed many of the Macedonians."

        Although the dialect of the 1/5 of the people he mentions could be called Makedonika , its not . Makedonika clearly is this Slave patios which resembles Bulgarian more than Servian and which villagers are no longer willing to admit that it is Bulgarian. Since it was a patriarchist village, the fanatical Grkomani despize to have the language called Bulgarian. And thats also why those Bulgarian bands were slaughtering people in this village. Perhaps it was Chakalaroff and the other butchers.

        Of course the name of this dialect has been given tonnes of names,
        Makedonika, SlavoMakedonika, Slavika , Dopia .

        And now i understand why you omitted the rest!!! You dont like what was written.
        When the spirit moves me to address this latest piece of distorted garbage, I will get back to it.
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13670

          #5
          What can I say, the spirit moved me. The bulk of your garbage is addressed in the initial post of this thread, so take the time to read it properly rather than skimming with 'Greek' citation blinkers on.

          As for this gem:
          Although the dialect of the 1/5 of the people he mentions could be called Makedonika , its not .......
          Gee, you remind me of that interpreter that accompanied Upward, let people speaks for themselves you dysfunctional nationalistic robot, Makedonika = Macedonian language. That is what the Macedonian villager said, end of story. Upward's records of this event are important as they clearly show the sentiment of the Macedonians.

          Several sources soundly and directly contradict Upward and his personal and biased opinions, which, despite the reality he saw when confronted by a Macedonian villager, is as irrelevant as the 'Greek' donkey that was his sidekick. This joker is no authority on how people 'feel' and 'what' they are, how there are people such as Latin Vlachs who 'feel' more "Hellenic" than the "Hellenes" without delving into the real facts, which is all stupidly equivalent to how dogs feel more like cats than cats when in the presence of cats, how Athenians feel more Ottoman than Ottomans when they wear their fez, how the Prosfiga feel more "Greek" than "Greeks" when sipping on a Turkish coffee, bla, bla, bla. Give me a break, and go and read Pavlos Melas' letters to his wife.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

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