Population of Macedonia and Adjacent Areas

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  • Liberator of Makedonija
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 1595

    Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
    The map is from 1930's. I missed that. But what I said applies to the maps of 19th century.
    From memory the Albanian Orthodox Church was established in the 1920s. Wouldn't surprise me if many would still be members of the Patriarchate in the 1930s. As for the Vlachs, most in that region (and at that time) were members of the Patriarchate too.
    I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

    Comment

    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332

      The following is from Asterios Koukoudis:

      For an earlier presence of Vlach populations until the earliest Ottoman times in the area a little north of Salonica, and especially in the areas of the Vardar and the Galik/Galika (Gallikos) river valleys, seem to be advocating some traditions of the Miyaks.

      The Miyaks, an old traditional population of the area between Debar and Gostivar have maintained traditions that some of their ancestors retired into this mountain region, coming from area of ​​the Galik River. The ancestors of Miyaks, a likely mixture of Slav-speaking and Vlach-speaking populations, left the region of Galik perhaps under the pressure of the Turkish settlements in Central Macedonia and the problems they gradually created for the Christian populations of the region.

      Socrates Diakos points out that some late medieval source reports the existence, around 1550, of Morion Vlachs (Μόριων Βλάχων) in the area of the valley of Galik.







      According to local legends reflected in a report by Srebren Pop-Petrov from 1916, the residents of Galichnik have moved from Solun, from the region of the Galik River during the Middle Ages. --> Тодоровски, Глигор. Малореканскиот предел. Општествено-економски и просветни прилики во 80-те години на XIX век до крајот на Првата светска војна, Скопје 1970, с. 14.


      Miyak Village, Galichnik, many families whose names were of Vlach origin

      Last edited by Carlin; 07-13-2018, 12:18 AM.

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      • Liberator of Makedonija
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2014
        • 1595

        I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

        Comment

        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332

          Yugoslavia and Macedonia Before Tito: Between Repression and Integration, By Nada Boskovska






          Here is the link - google books:
          Held together by apparatchiks and, later, Tito’s charisma, Yugoslavia never really incorporated separate Balkan nationalisms into the Pan-Slavic ideal. Macedonia - frequently ignored by Belgrade - had survived centuries of Turkish domination, Bulgarian invasion and Serbian assimilation before it became part of the Yugoslav project in the aftermath of the First World War. Drawing on an extensive analysis of archival material, private correspondence, and newspaper articles, Nada Boškovska provides an arresting account of the Macedonian experience of the interwar years, charting the growth of political consciousness and the often violent state-driven attempts to curb autonomy. Sketching the complex picture of nationalism within a multi-ethnic, but unitarist state through a comprehensive analysis of policy, economy, and education, Yugoslavia and Macedonia before Tito is the first book to describe the uneasy and often turbulent relationship between a Serbian-dominated government and an increasingly politically aware Macedonian people. Concerned with the question of integration and political manipulation, Boškovska gives credence to voices critical of Royal Yugoslavia and offers a fresh insight into domestic policy and the Macedonian question, going beyond traditional high politics. Broadening the spectrum of discussion and protest, she reveals the voices of a people protesting constitutional and electoral fraud, the neglect of local needs and state machinations designed to create a satellite province.
          Last edited by Carlin; 07-22-2018, 10:42 PM.

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          • tchaiku
            Member
            • Nov 2016
            • 786

            Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post











            (The map above seems to ignore the presence of Slavs and Vlachs in eastern Thrace. For instance, Vlachs are recorded in different districts throughout Thrace, one of them being around Bizye, which we can see above. Later on, the Vlachs were forcibly moved from Bizye to the Asiatic coast of the Bosphorus.)
            .......

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            • Niko777
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2010
              • 1895

              Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
              You can still find people in Sohos (Suho) and Asvestohori (Peizanovo) speaking Macedonian today.

              Comment

              • Carlin
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2011
                • 3332

                Парапанковци - Parapankovtsi

                Parapankovtsi is a term used in the past to designate linguistically hellenized Bulgarians of south Thrace. The term derives from the pejorative "parapanko" (from Greek "parpano/parapono"), with which this group was called by the Greek-speakers and later by the Bulgarian-speakers.

                In Ethnography of the Villages of Adrianople, Monastir and Salonika from 1878 part of Parapanko ​​villages are presented as Bulgarian or mixed. According to Anastas Razboinikov, the Greek language of Parapankovtsi is barbarian, rough and unruly. Their style and costume are identical to those of the Thracian Bulgarians living near them.

                Until the beginning of the 20th century, the Parapankovtsi inhabited villages in districts of Dimotika/Didymoteicho, Soufli, Ortaköy, Edirne and Enez, as well as some urban centers in Eastern and Western Thrace. At that time, in some villages, the elderly speak Bulgarian and the young ones only in Greek. The main factors for the Hellenization of Parapankovtsi are mainly the cultural influences accompanying the Greek educational system and ecclesiastical activity. The processes of Hellenization in Parapanko villages in the Ottoman Empire continued to the Balkan Wars. After 1912, the majority of Parapankovtsi in Eastern Thrace emigrated to Greece.

                URL:



                Кариоти - Karyotes

                The Karyotes (in Greek: Καρυώτες) are a Greek-speaking ethnographic group (most likely of Bulgarian descent).

                By the beginning of the 20th century, there were about 4,000 people. Their language is a variety of Greek, while folk songs, costumes and customs are Bulgarian. In the 19th century under pressure from the Patriarchate of Constantinople they began to Hellenize; there existed a Greek primary school with about 200 children, supported by the patriarchy. In 1906, about 100 families volunteered to leave and settle in Greece.

                In Southeastern Bulgaria, the Karyote men wear white pendants and white shorts, typical of the Šop/Shop costume.

                Konstantin Jirechek, in his Travels in Bulgaria describes the Karyotes as follows:

                "The costumes of the Karyotes are pure Bulgrian, cap included. Men don't know Bulgarian, but there are women who know it. ... in Kavakli, now perfectly Greek, a neighborhood is still called Bulgar Mahala. According to the topographic nomenclature, which, with few exceptions, is completely Turkish, it can be judged that this Christian (Greek) population is also of a newer/recent origin."

                URL:


                Traditional Karyote costume for women


                URL:
                Last edited by Carlin; 08-23-2018, 09:10 PM.

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                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  Just another migrating Slav by the look of it.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                    Just another migrating Slav by the look of it.
                    Straight outta Pripyat Marshes

                    Comment

                    • Amphipolis
                      Banned
                      • Aug 2014
                      • 1328

                      Originally posted by Carlin15
                      An example of ancestrydna circles/dots as they appear on a map - my "common ancestors" in the year 1825 (Macedonia, Epirus and Thessaly):

                      Where did your known ancestors come from? Also, you never told us if you are Vlach.

                      Comment

                      • Amphipolis
                        Banned
                        • Aug 2014
                        • 1328

                        Originally posted by Carlin15
                        An example of ancestrydna circles/dots as they appear on a map - my "common ancestors" in the year 1825 (Macedonia, Epirus and Thessaly):

                        I don't see how this is produced. It probably means that this is where most of your "distant cousins" (people you have common ancestors 6-8 generations ago, i.e. in 1825) live now. Does this website let you contact with these cousins?

                        Comment

                        • tchaiku
                          Member
                          • Nov 2016
                          • 786

                          Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                          Where did your known ancestors come from? Also, you never told us if you are Vlach.
                          So Carlin is a Vlach. Hmm never crossed my mind before.

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                          • tchaiku
                            Member
                            • Nov 2016
                            • 786

                            The only sure thing is that the Greek clerics, John Apokaukos and George Bardanes, writing around 1220, considered Grevena in western Macedonia a barbaric Slavic-speaking place and Vonditza in Acarnania Greek-speaking.

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                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                              I don't see how this is produced. It probably means that this is where most of your "distant cousins" (people you have common ancestors 6-8 generations ago, i.e. in 1825) live now. Does this website let you contact with these cousins?
                              No - the dots seem to represent ancestral birth locations. See my post #146 where I provide screenshots from the ancestry site, where they explain what the dots and lines represent on a map:
                              Long time no post. As you can tell by my name (Kure), I'm Macedonian. I sent my DNA samples to iGENEA. The results should be back within a month. Once I get them, I'll scan and upload them here.


                              AncestryDNA does provide a list of 'distant cousins'.

                              As I already might have explained, the dots increase/decrease on a map, and they can appear/disappear in different regions as people move about/migrate.

                              Here is roughly the same region at 1850:

                              Comment

                              • Carlin
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 3332

                                Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                                Where did your known ancestors come from? Also, you never told us if you are Vlach.
                                I'm not sure why this matters so much. My known ancestors, as far as I know, were all Orthodox Christians and came from Macedonia and Epirus regions. They spoke primarily Vlahika at home, and others Makedonika. I am of mixed ancestry.

                                I know that some of the men in my family also spoke Romaika, while others were not so fluent in Romaika but had some knowledge of it. Also, others (more recent/immediate ancestors) knew and spoke Arvanitika.
                                Last edited by Carlin; 08-27-2018, 08:38 PM.

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