Mother tongue, MACEDONIAN, Lerin(Florina) 1954!

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  • Onur
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2010
    • 2389

    #16
    I wont argue with you about so-called Pontic genocide based on the claims of the monster called Germanos Karavangelis. Also, do not change the subject of the thread for no reason.

    I will remind you just one thing. Turkey`s population was 14 million in 1926 and these non-muslim population wasn't more than 10% of Turkey. On the other hand, Greece`s population before population exchange was 2.1 million(i guess it was 1922 census). 600.000 of them was muslim Turks and rest was Vlachs, Arvanites, Macedonians etc. So, Greeks was minority in Greece b4 population exchange. So, whose "problem" was greater?

    Comment

    • Agamoi Thytai
      Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 198

      #17
      Originally posted by Onur View Post
      I wont argue with you about so-called Pontic genocide based on the claims of the monster called Germanos Karavangelis. Also, do not change the subject of the thread for no reason.
      Onur,if there was a competition of self-humiliation you surely would have win the golden medall!Where did you see the name of Germanos Karavangelis mentioned in the book I've quoted?Stop embarassing yourself:

      Missionary testimony cited by George Horton in his account of the late Ottoman genocides,The blight of Asia, dated the onset of "the Greek deportations from the Black Sea" to January 1916:

      Genocide: A Comprehensive Introduction is the most wide-ranging textbook on genocide yet published. The book is designed as a text for upper-undergraduate and graduate students, as well as a primer for non-specialists and general readers interested in learning about one of humanity’s enduring blights. Fully updated to reflect the latest thinking in this rapidly developing field, this new edition: provides an introduction to genocide as both a historical phenomenon and an analytical-legal concept, including an extended discussion of the concept of genocidal intent, and the dynamism and contingency of genocidal processes discusses the role of state-building, imperialism, war, and social revolution in fueling genocide supplies a wide range of full-length case studies of genocides worldwide, each with an accompanying box-text explores perspectives on genocide from the social sciences, including psychology, sociology, anthropology, political science/international relations, and gender studies considers "The Future of Genocide," with attention to historical memory and genocide denial; initiatives for truth, justice, and redress; and strategies of intervention and prevention. Written in clear and lively prose, liberally sprinkled with over 100 illustrations and maps, and including personal testimonies from genocide survivors, Genocide: A Comprehensive Introduction has established itself as the core textbook of the new generation of genocide scholarship. An accompanying website (www.genocidetext.net) features a broad selection of supplementary materials, teaching aids, and Internet resources.

      These Greeks came through the city of Marsovan by thousands [reported a missionary],walking for the most part the three days' journey through the snow and mud and slush of the winter weather.Thousands fell by the wayside from exhaustion and others came into the city of Marsovan in groups of fifty,one hundred and five hundred,always under escort of Turkish gendarmes.Next morning these poor refugees were started on the road and destruction by this
      treatment was even more radical than a straight massacre such as the Armenians suffered before.
      Originally posted by Onur View Post
      I will remind you just one thing. Turkey`s population was 14 million in 1926 and these non-muslim population wasn't more than 10% of Turkey. On the other hand, Greece`s population before population exchange was 2.1 million(i guess it was 1922 census). 600.000 of them was muslim Turks and rest was Vlachs, Arvanites, Macedonians etc. So, Greeks was minority in Greece b4 population exchange. So, whose "problem" was greater?
      Where did you get this number,2,1 millions,you pathetic liar?The population of Greece was 4.800.000 people at the outbreak of the Balkan wars in 1912 (that means before any Macedonian,Epirotic and Thracian teritories become part of the Greek state,thus no Macedonians and Turks were included in this number) :

      The Balkan League alliance of Bulgaria, Greece, Montenegro and Serbia went to war with the Ottoman Empire and defeated it. The Turks were forced to surrender their European holdings.

      Galaxy is a digital asset and blockchain leader helping institutions, startups, and individuals shape a changing economy.
      "What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
      Polybius, Histories, 9.35

      Comment

      • Stojacanec
        Member
        • Dec 2009
        • 809

        #18
        Originally posted by Onur View Post


        I don't think so. The existence of non-Greek people in Macedonia was always a problem for Greece since day one, in 1913. They "resolved" the Turkish problem(600.000 Turks of Aegean Macedonia) in there with population exchange by deporting them to Turkey. Then afterwards, they "resolved" the Jewish problem in 1920s-1930s by setting fire in whole Jewish quarter in Salonika and forced them to leave Greece. You know, Metaxas didn't even permit Jews to rebuild their homes and 10.000s of Jews slept in the ruined streets of Salonika `till they left Greece. Then only nuisance remained in there was Macedonians after 1930s.

        You are so right Onur. Nicely put.

        It has come to a huge surprise to me when I learned over the years that Greeks were calling us Communists. And like many other daft accuations greeks make about Macedonians, I would love to know the rational (in their minds) for this.

        My grandparents had their livestock taken away (ROM) and other assets they owned such as cars by the Communist regime. They were then told they didn't own their land, they just were able to work it for a wage.

        So how does that make us Communits I'll never know.

        Comment

        • makedonche
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2008
          • 3242

          #19
          Agamoi

          Where did you get this number,2,1 millions,you pathetic liar?The population of Greece was 4.800.000 people at the outbreak of the Balkan wars in 1912 (that means before any Macedonian,Epirotic and Thracian teritories become part of the Greek state,thus no Macedonians and Turks were included in this number) :
          Which map/area are you referring to when you say the population of "Greece" in your above quote? Post a picture of it for me and all forum members to see.
          On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            #20
            Originally posted by Stojacanec View Post
            So how does that make us Communits I'll never know.
            My Porsche is red ... so maybe they are right.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • Daskalot
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 4345

              #21
              Originally posted by Voltron View Post
              Yes, I will. Give me a few.
              Voltron, how is the translation coming along?
              I would love to read it all and so would many of our readers to.
              Can we get a word for word translation of it?
              Agamoi, maybe you could chip in and help Voltron out?
              Macedonian Truth Organisation

              Comment

              • Voltron
                Banned
                • Jan 2011
                • 1362

                #22
                believe it or not I busted up my hand pretty good friday.
                I havent posted for the last 3 days. I can only type one handed. If Agamoi or if John is around maybe they can help. Only good thing out of this is a bottle of codeine and 1 week off of work. Sorry Daskalot

                Comment

                • Stojacanec
                  Member
                  • Dec 2009
                  • 809

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View Post
                  Where did you get this number,2,1 millions,you pathetic liar?The population of Greece was 4.800.000 people at the outbreak of the Balkan wars in 1912 (that means before any Macedonian,Epirotic and Thracian teritories become part of the Greek state,thus no Macedonians and Turks were included in this number) :
                  Check your figures agian Agamoi, Greece with the inclusion of Aegean Macedonia, Epirus and Thrace was around 6.5 mill after pop exchange.

                  If you work backwards Onurs figures ring true.
                  Last edited by Stojacanec; 02-21-2011, 05:18 AM.

                  Comment

                  • Moon Tiki
                    Banned
                    • Feb 2011
                    • 34

                    #24
                    I admit it is interesting in its absurdity, but it's too long and I'm not in a mood to translate it. If it was in text format or if I had a printer here it would be easier. Now, one has to click on an image, zoom it, memorize it, translate, etc. And it’s quite long.
                    It generally says that this is not a language (like Greek, French or English), just a hodgepodge of words, because it was never taught officially in schools, it has no grammar and syntax rules. It even says it's mostly Greek, Turkish and Latin (not Slavic!) and throws a lot of "communist gangs" in the whole propaganda to use the terms of Macedonian or Slavic language...and a few other things.
                    Last edited by Moon Tiki; 02-21-2011, 04:01 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Moon Tiki
                      It generally says that this is not a language (like Greek, French or English), just a hodgepodge of words, because it was never taught officially in schools, it has no grammar and syntax rules.
                      Macedonian is much more than that, it has a history, grammar, syntax, unique characteristics, etc, nobody that actually knows the language would refer to it as a "hodgepodge of words". Rather than paying attention to the commentary of the person that wrote the document, why not focus on what the people actually said about their language? What is it with Greeks like yourself who have an inability to see what is in front of their face? You're like robots programmed only to see negatives in others, it's pathetic.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • George S.
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 10116

                        #26
                        Moon tiki where did the macedonian slav language come from it certainly did not come from the slavs because they were illiterate.The slavs adopted the macedonian language.Where did the macedonian language of today come from it came from the Ancient Macedonian language.The Macedonians had their own macedonian language.
                        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                        GOTSE DELCEV

                        Comment

                        • Daskalot
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 4345

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                          believe it or not I busted up my hand pretty good friday.
                          I havent posted for the last 3 days. I can only type one handed. If Agamoi or if John is around maybe they can help. Only good thing out of this is a bottle of codeine and 1 week off of work. Sorry Daskalot
                          Oh I see Voltron, no problem.
                          Get well soon so you can finish of the translation.
                          Macedonian Truth Organisation

                          Comment

                          • Daskalot
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 4345

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Moon Tiki View Post
                            I admit it is interesting in its absurdity, but it's too long and I'm not in a mood to translate it. If it was in text format or if I had a printer here it would be easier. Now, one has to click on an image, zoom it, memorize it, translate, etc. And it’s quite long.
                            It generally says that this is not a language (like Greek, French or English), just a hodgepodge of words, because it was never taught officially in schools, it has no grammar and syntax rules. It even says it's mostly Greek, Turkish and Latin (not Slavic!) and throws a lot of "communist gangs" in the whole propaganda to use the terms of Macedonian or Slavic language...and a few other things.
                            You are not in the mood to translate.... how come? Would you have if it were a document that was 100% pro your point of view?

                            You are aware that you can download the picture to your computer and work on it? Resize it, adjust it and so forth, no need to memorize anything.
                            Give it a try.

                            The important thing is not what the Greek official in Lerin thought, THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THE MACEDONIANS NOTED THAT THEIR MOTHER TONGUE IS MACEDONIAN.
                            This is called self determination, very important word, look it up on wikipedia if needed.

                            By the way, do you think the Greek official in Lerin was a schooled professor in linguistics? Even a specialist on the Slavic based languages in the world?

                            Please give me your two cents on this.
                            Macedonian Truth Organisation

                            Comment

                            • Moon Tiki
                              Banned
                              • Feb 2011
                              • 34

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                              You are not in the mood to translate.... how come? Would you have if it were a document that was 100% pro your point of view?
                              Uh... not more than 2 or 3 lines. If it's in text format much more, since one can start with google translate and edit it.

                              Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                              By the way, do you think the Greek official in Lerin was a schooled professor in linguistics? Even a specialist on the Slavic based languages in the world?
                              Please give me your two cents on this.
                              I don't know who or what the author is. He writes in a semi-archaic speech and I can't find grammatical or other mistakes. He's an angry political propagandist; his text is certainly not scientific or clear in its structure. It shows some phony profoundness. He probably repeats ideas and arguments of his time.
                              Some more points:
                              He calls the people in question local or autochthones of Greek Macedonia, descendants of ancient Macedonians.
                              He says that the “communist gangs” were using the term Slavomacedonian because they were Slavic agents themselves, sold to their foreign Slavic patrons.
                              He says the people are genuine Greeks and it is a slander for them to be called Slavomacedonians.
                              The author himself uses the term “local linguistic idiom” that is spoken by very few, mostly old, people. His final conclusion on how it should be cited is in the next pages I guess.

                              Note: It is the registrars that enter the terms (Macedonian, Macedonian idiom etc), not the people. This text gives instructions to the registrars and says “you’re obviously doing this out of ignorance”, and enlightens them on the political implications.
                              Last edited by Moon Tiki; 02-22-2011, 10:15 AM.

                              Comment

                              • Agamoi Thytai
                                Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 198

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                                Voltron, how is the translation coming along?
                                I would love to read it all and so would many of our readers to.
                                Can we get a word for word translation of it?
                                Agamoi, maybe you could chip in and help Voltron out?
                                OK teacher,here is a word for word translation:

                                Prefecture of Florina Florina,11 March 1954
                                To the registrars of the prefecture of Florina

                                Because some of you,despite the instructions that have been given and obviously due to ignorance of the meaning of words,continue when composing the statistical accounts (marriages,births,deaths) and especially the births (question 11:”what’s the father’s native tongue?...of the mother?....) to answer thoughtlessly: “Macedonian”,”Albanian”,”Lazian”,”Vlach”,the “Macedonian idiom” e.t.c,we make known to you the following,on which we recommend to focus your attention,so that this absurdity will vanish,which might become a cause of serious misunderstanding and exploitation by the lurking antihellenic propaganda,as it recently happened with the communist bandits that were motivated by foreign agendas,who called the indigenous inhabitants of Greek Macedonia Slavomacedonians e.t.c.
                                Language is called the dialect,that has alphabet and grammar,which is officially taught in the schools.”Macedonian” language,as the answer of some of you to the above question is,or “Slavic” language did never exist in Greek Macedonia,those that claim the opposite being victims of antihellenic propaganda,apparently due to ignorance.The idiom spoken by a small percentage of the inhabitants of Macedonia,natives and elderly people mainly,is not an official language but an idiom of local speech,because if it was a language,it ought,as it has been stressed above,to have an alphabet and grammar,that is the correspondence should be conducted in that language,exactly as it happens with Greek,English,French and other official languages.
                                After all,it is known to all of you that the motivated by foreign agendas communist bandits,under the commands of their Slav patrons,tried desperate attempts during the foreign occupation and the subsequent bandit war (civil war) to present the indigenous (native) inhabitants of Macedonia as “Slavomacedonians”,and the idiom spoken by a small number of them as “Slavomacedonian language”.
                                This is,however,an invention of the Slav agents,communist bandits,because it has been reasonably and officially ascertained that the local speech idiom spoken by very few inhabitants,is an admixture of words from various languages (Greek,Turkish,Latin e.t.c.) amongst whom the Greek language occupies the most prominent place and to the greatest degree.
                                This has been examined by great linguists,both Greeks and foreigners and is analyzed in their worthy writings,and it’s also easy to anyone to examine it,if he knows the etymology of the words.
                                Regardless of all the above though,and even if the local speech idiom could be considered as language,it would never be possible for it to form a testimony for the ethnological composition of the population of Greek Macedonia,which considers as the greatest of all insults being called by some other name (Slavomacedonian) and not genuine Greek and to forget its historical origin,which is traced back to the ancient Macedonian warriors,who formed the army during the cultural campaign…
                                "What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
                                Polybius, Histories, 9.35

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