Ventilator

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • indigen
    Senior Member
    • May 2009
    • 1558

    #16
    Declaration of Macedonians (Oct. 1, 1995) at UN Rally against “Interim Agreement".

    Newsgroups: bit.listserv.makedon
    From: Slavko Mangovski
    Date: 1995/10/09
    Subject: Declaration

    Sunday, October 1, 1995
    United Nations Plaza, New York City

    We, the Macedonians, having organized this peaceful rally today, to protest the ignominious agreement signed on September 13, 1995, by the foreign ministers of the Republic of Macedonia, on one hand, and Greece, on the other and sponsored by the UN, whereby our human rights, as people, and our identity, integrity and dignity are most seriously compromised and flouted, issue the following

    DECLARATION

    • With the genuine feeling of pride, which is present in the collective consciousness and in the genes of all Macedonians concerning our ethnogenesis from ancient times to the present;

    • With a sense of belonging to a distinct European people known as Macedonians, conscious and proud of our past, our national name and identity, our cultural heritage, our religion, our customs, our traditions, our language, our folklore and rites and rituals;

    • With the determination to win for ourselves a place of respect, honor and dignity among the families of mankind;

    • With an understanding that all people are created equal by God;

    • We, the Macedonians, descendants of the ancient Macedonian kings Amyntas and Perdikka, Philip and Alexander; followers of the early Christian teachings of the Holy Apostle Paul; followers of the medieval Christian-Orthodox teachings of the Macedonian Saints Cyril and Methodius and their Macedonian disciples S.S. Clement and Naum; descendants of the medieval Macedonian king Samuel; descendants of the fighters against the Ottoman Empire Petar Delyan, Georgi Voyteh and Karposh; descendants of the fighters in the glorious Ilinden Uprising Goce Delchev, Pitu Guli, Dame Gruev and Jane Sandanski; descendants of the fighters of resistance against Nazi and communist oppression during WWII Metodija Andonov Chento; divided by brutal force and against our will among our neighbours during the Balkan Wars of 1912-1913; and condemned by the unjust Bucharest Treaty of August 10, 1913, which expired in 1987;

    • We, the Macedonians, from Aegean Macedonia, from Vardar Macedonia, from Pirin Macedonia, from Little Prespa and elsewhere;

    • We, the exiled and suffering children of our Holy and Biblical motherland, Macedonia, which has nourished and sustained us for myriads of generations, hereby affirm our indomitable spirit and our unwavering determination to strive for our national and human rights, to succeed and never to yield!

    And furthermore we declare that:

    • Starting from the principles of the Charter of the UN, from the goals and principles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; from the International Declaration of Human Rights; from the Final Document of the European Conference for Security and Cooperation; from the principles of the Paris Charter for New Europe, according to which, the countries, members of these organizations and signatories of these documents have committed themselves to respect and equality of all peoples and their right for self-determination;

    • We, the Macedonians, do hereby most solemnly declare, that we completely honor and abide by the principles contained in the Charter of the UN and that the so called “Interim agreement” signed on September 13, 1995 contradicts and flouts these vary same principles;

    • We condemn the signing by the Republic of Macedonia of that agreement and call for an imposition of an immediate moratorium on it;

    • We call upon the parliament of the Republic of Macedonia not to ratify that agreement until the Macedonian public opinion has been consulted in an open and democratic way;

    • We assert that the government of the Republic of Macedonia has sabotaged all the democratic processes whereby issues of vital national interest have been flagrantly compromised and the democratic and popular voice of the Macedonian people has been rendered irrelevant;

    • We claim, like all other members of the UN to have a sovereign, natutal, historical and civilizational right to be recognized under our one and only name Macedonia; with all the accompanying attributes of a sovereign state, including our national flag, national anthem and constitution, as they are at the present time;

    • We ask all four of our neighbours: Greece, Albania, Serbia and Bulgaria to recognize the Human Rights of the Macedonians who live in those countries, in accordance with the International Law and the Principles of the European Union;

    • We urge the UN and the International Community to prevent Greece’s blackmail of Macedonia;

    • We refuse, in principle, to accept the artificial argument which Greece has impose upon Macedonia regarding our name, national symbols and constitution;

    • We ask that Greece recognize the existence of a Macedonian ethnic entity within her borders and permit them to exercise their basic human rights to worship in their own Macedonian churches and receive elementary education in their native Macedonian language, according to International Law;

    • We ask that all of the exiled Macedonians be allowed to return to their ancestral homes of which they have been dispossessed by the Greek government during this century;

    • We want unimpeded and open flaw of people and goods in the spirit of the free Europe;

    • We appeal to the free and democratic world to recall that the Badinter Arbitrary International Commission, made up of the high justices of the constitutional Supreme Courts of five members of the EU, ruled unanimously and recommended that Macedonia qualified for recognition as an independent and sovereign state and that “the name Macedonia does not imply territorial pretensions towards any of its neighbours.”

    • It is high time that Macedonia and the Macedonians get the respect that we deserve!

    To those aims we devote ourselves and herein put our signatures:

    1. Macedonian Human Rights Movement (NE USA)
    2. Macedonian Orthodox Church SS Cyril and Methodius of Cedar Grove, NJ
    3. Macedonian Orthodox Church St. Nikola of Totowa, NJ
    4. Macedonian Soccer Club of Clifton, NJ
    5. Macedonian World Congress
    6. Macedonian World Congress of North America
    7. Macedonian Orthodox Church St. Clement of Ohrid in NY
    8. Macedonian Society of NY
    9. United Macedonians of Toronto, Canada
    10. Macedonian Orthodox Church St. Dimitrija of S. Florida

    Comment

    • Frank
      Banned
      • Mar 2010
      • 687

      #17
      think your view is mere wishful thinking and not what really happened. It has also been clearly stated by its creators that it has no ethnic, cultural or historic significance for Macedonians. in fact, there was info published back in 1995 (Today Denes paper, Australia) linking it to an exact (or close) replica of a Soviet Red Army Flag of WWII era.
      I like to not accept what Denes said in 95 especially an Austrlian rag, the truth be told we dont know how the Macedonian State Flag came into been

      But I would state this the 8 ray sun motif is seen throught thosands of reliefs and archlogical digs throug out Makedonia and rock art the most signiicant I prefer to beleve that was the story not a Slavist Communist agenda.

      Again it is high time some dam Macedonians better respect the current State Flag as it is ours we have 2 let us rest at that shall we.

      Oh intesting dig up of the archives good to remeber that stuff.

      Comment

      • osiris
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1969

        #18
        i like the new flag and think its better looking as a symbol then the ancient one. the three letters indigen posted are all my friends especially mango and angelokov and i respect their opinions.

        while i do resent having a choice taken from us, but i am with frank the symbol it represents exists throughout macedonia and i think as a second choice its great as i said even better than the other original one.
        Last edited by osiris; 04-24-2010, 11:26 PM.

        Comment

        • Vangelovski
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 8531

          #19
          Originally posted by Frank View Post
          I like to not accept what Denes said in 95 especially an Austrlian rag, the truth be told we dont know how the Macedonian State Flag came into been

          But I would state this the 8 ray sun motif is seen throught thosands of reliefs and archlogical digs throug out Makedonia and rock art the most signiicant I prefer to beleve that was the story not a Slavist Communist agenda.

          Again it is high time some dam Macedonians better respect the current State Flag as it is ours we have 2 let us rest at that shall we.

          Oh intesting dig up of the archives good to remeber that stuff.
          Frank, can you show me any evidence of where the ventilator has existed in history? If there are so many examples of it, surely you can provide at least one.
          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

          Comment

          • indigen
            Senior Member
            • May 2009
            • 1558

            #21
            Originally posted by Frank View Post
            I like to not accept what Denes said in 95 especially an Austrlian rag, the truth be told we don't know how the Macedonian State Flag came into been

            The owner and the then publisher of TD was Bozin Pavlovski, who today is a member of MANU (not that I respect that institution much) and is a respected author and publisher.

            We do know how it came about, it was designed by SDS party hacks with the clear aim that it have no cultural or historic meaning for Macedonians and that it symbolises CAPITULATION.

            Промената на изгледот на државното знаме и на химната беа едни од барањата кои при утврдувањето на охридскиот договор ги изнел Арбен Џафери, лидер на ДПА. Меѓутоа, од страна на СДСМ и на ВМРО-ДПМНЕ тоа било отфрлено. Странските "олеснувачи" го поддржале тој став со образложение дека "изгледот на знамето содржи неутрални симболи".
            Dnevnik broj 1996 (approx 2002)
            But I would state this the 8 ray sun motif is seen in thousands of reliefs and archaeological digs through out Makedonia and rock art the most significant I prefer to believe that was the story not a Slavist Communist agenda.
            Wishful thinking (pravenje bajram so umot) is a nice ESCAPISM! But the hard cold reality is that it has no connection to anything Macedonian (by design).

            Again it is high time some dam Macedonians better respect the current State Flag as it is ours we have 2 let us rest at that shall we.
            Do we have a state to respect? I am for the destruction of Ramkovist State and all the institutions that uphold it!

            Oh interesting dig up of the archives good to remember that stuff.
            Does that mean you were an adult in 1995 and remember what happened? I was an adult then and my community ABSOLUTELY CONDEMNED IT and I can not see how I can go against my political principles and ideology, now or ever, and those of my community (not forgetting all other patriotic Macedonians around the world who are similarly opposed).

            Comment

            • Frank
              Banned
              • Mar 2010
              • 687

              #22
              Wishful thinking (pravenje bajram so umot) is a nice ESCAPISM! But the hard cold reality is that it has no connection to anything Macedonian (by design).
              Dude do I really have to prove this to you it is a fact not fanicable thinking

              Google is your firend

              And again I know who really dont like the Macedonian State Flag but really please dont dishonour the Stste Flag it is just not cool Okay.

              Do we have a state to respect? I am for the destruction of Ramkovist State and all the institutions that uphold it!
              That is going to get us no were really quick.

              Does that mean you were an adult in 1995 and remember what happened? I was an adult then and my community ABSOLUTELY CONDEMNED IT and I can not see how I can go against my political principles and ideology, now or ever, and those of my community (not forgetting all other patriotic Macedonians around the world who are similarly opposed).
              Buddy take a deep breath I found those archives really Interesting to read, and it is good they should be preserved.
              Last edited by Frank; 04-25-2010, 05:42 AM.

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8531

                #23
                Frank,

                Are you going to provide us with some evidence that the ventilator existed prior to 1995 or are you just going to repeat the same old SDSM rumour?
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • aleksandrov
                  Member
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 558

                  #24
                  Whether you want to call it a ventilator or an 8-ray sun, raising Gligorov's flag has essentially the same symbolism as raising a white flag or your oppressor's flag. Feel-good revisionism cannot change the fact that it was adopted by people who illegally usurped the Macedonian legislature in the service of foreign puppet-masters, in order to appease Greek chauvinists seeking to suppress the existence of an indigenous Macedonian identity and the free will of the Macedonian people.
                  All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                  https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

                  Comment

                  • Bill77
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 4545

                    #25
                    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                    Frank,

                    Are you going to provide us with some evidence that the ventilator existed prior to 1995 or are you just going to repeat the same old SDSM rumour?
                    I don't mind the new flag, as Daniel The Great said, Novo sonce na slobodata. Well it sounds good anyway.

                    The only issue is, that we had to change our original. So its the "inajet" that we were made to change, But i don't think its the actual flag that is the problem, Its still a Macedonian symbol. Here are some evidence of the 8 ray sun you ask for.





                    These above, seem to be a religious symbol as they are found on churches and a bridal accessories. But the next one is another varient of the sun symbol that is very comon and there are many examples.











                    As you can see, there are much more rays and they are also curved or on an angle.
                    Last edited by Bill77; 04-25-2010, 09:31 AM.
                    http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                    Comment

                    • indigen
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2009
                      • 1558

                      #26
                      Originally posted by Frank View Post
                      Dude do I really have to prove this to you it is a fact not fanicable thinking
                      Yes, YOU and others like you ARE DELUDING THEMSELVES and don't like facing reality, IME!!! It is no different to the ones that say changing the state name to "North Macedonia" is a positive thing "since it will indicate there is a "South Macedonia"! IT is all crap and denial of CAPITULATION and DEFEAT - PORAZ!

                      Google is your firend
                      Yeah, one can go and try to find "facts and proofs" to fit the current reality of ABSOLUTE defeat and degradation and play make-believe children's games but I already posted relevant info in the first post and last reply to highlight the fact that it is officially ACKNOWLEDGED by ALL "Macedonian" state and political representatives and VERIFIED by their INTERNATIONAL overlords that it has only "NEUTRAL" (i.e. NON-MACEDONIAN) representation.

                      The old state flag was given up together with our rights to indigenous Macedonian (i.e. as Gligorov stated: "we are Slavs who arrived in the 6th century and have no connection with the ancient Macedonians") heritage and places us in a very precarious position vis-a-vis ALL our negators, especially the Ghegs, Bulgars and Grks!

                      And again I know who really dont like the Macedonian State Flag but really please dont dishonour the Stste Flag it is just not cool Okay.
                      I wipe my arse with symbols of treason and as Ramkovist Macedonia is NOT a Macedonian state, the props and institutions that keep it in place need to be terminated and replaced by Macedonian ones ASAP!

                      ВЛАДО ПОПОВСКИ, професор на правниот факултет


                      "....Тие дури сметаат дека албанското знаме е постаро и од албанската држава. Затоа Албанците каде и да живеат, преку знамето на Албанија го манифестираат сопствениот идентитет.

                      l Како тоа да го сфатат Македонците?

                      - Друго е прашањето што Македонците немаат етничко знаме. Кај Македонците е создадена свест дека преку државното знаме се манифестира и етничката припадност. Тоа, пак, кај албанското население создава претстава дека македонскиот народ го монополизира државното знаме во насока дека државата е само на Македонците, а не на сите граѓани.

                      l Зарем државно знаме содржи нешто тенденциозно спрема етничките чувства на Албанците?

                      - Симболот на официјалното знаме е универзален, а не етнички, и се однесува на сите граѓани. Друга ситуација ќе имавме со првото знаме што беше со ѕвездата од Кутлеш, која е од времето на Античка Македонија. Тогаш со тоа знаме би се идентификувале оние што се сметаат за потомци на Филип и на Александар Македонски.

                      Comment

                      • Vangelovski
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 8531

                        #27
                        Bill77,

                        What similarity do those samples you gave us have to the ventilator??? The first two are examples of the sonce, the others look more like ninja stars than the ventilator.

                        Regardless, the point is the treason and capitulation behind the ventilator, which is part and parcel of the Interim Accord and FYROM.
                        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                        Comment

                        • BigMak
                          Banned
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 209

                          #28
                          Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                          Bill77,

                          What similarity do those samples you gave us have to the ventilator??? The first two are examples of the sonce, the others look more like ninja stars than the ventilator.

                          Regardless, the point is the treason and capitulation behind the ventilator, which is part and parcel of the Interim Accord and FYROM.
                          Vangelovski, No one agrees with the Interim Accord and the fact Macedonian has changed its flag via political force, but its undeniable the variation of the 8rayed sun has always been in Macedonian culture. Mainly in field of arts and crafts, I have plenty of photos with a 8 rayed variation, next time your in the Republic do your own research its not that hard if you can get yourself away from the local Cafana.

                          Comment

                          • Risto the Great
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 15658

                            #29
                            If Greeks tell us we Macedonians MUST use the swirly symbol for our flag, should we feel better about it?
                            Risto the Great
                            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                            Comment

                            • BigMak
                              Banned
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 209

                              #30
                              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                              If Greeks tell us we Macedonians MUST use the swirly symbol for our flag, should we feel better about it?
                              If greeks told us we can revert to our old macedonian surnames would we?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X