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Originally posted by Risto the Great
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I was not trying to be shady, but the point I was trying to make it is pointless despite the fight for the name. Even Serbs have a Constantine Airport name:
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No worries Tchaiku. That kind of talk is always shady when a Greek is involved, but it happens with others often enough for Macedonians to become overly sensitive. No problem.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.comComment
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Macedonia is a cool name regardless of Alexander's legacy.Comment
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Interesting article from the Saudi Press..
GREEKS have been through hard times recently, thanks to the financial collapse of their country and the tough austerity imposed on them. It might therefore be thought they had enough in the way of troubles without seeking to add another in the form of mass protest over the name of a neighbor state.
On the other hand, so great has been the economic humiliation resulting from the false accounting of past governments with the help of leading US investment bankers, that maybe the ordinary Greeks feel they need an external cause to get themselves riled.
The issue is of course Macedonia, which gained its independence from the former Yugoslavia in 1991. The northern Greek region with its capital in Thessaloniki is also called Macedonia. The large Syntagma Square protest in Athens this weekend was prompted by the announcement that the country’s left-wing government was on the verge of ending its long-running dispute over the name of the state of Macedonia. The fact that it is unclear what the deal might be, did not stop the crowds from taking to the streets. They are furious at any compromise and are dedicated to the idea that whatever its neighboring state wants to call itself, that name should not include the word “Macedonia”. Anything less, claimed the protesters, and there was a clear threat of the annexation of the Greek province at some future date.
The speeches to the weekend crowd in the Greek capital dwelt upon the glorious history of Greek Macedonia, particularly of Alexander the Great and his father Philip II of Macedon. One speaker said that as descendants of the conquering armies of Alexander who had marched as far as India and Egypt, it was unthinkable this region might be threatened by a Slav neighbor that had appropriated its name. Unfortunately this comment is complete bunkum. Some fourteen hundred years ago the Byzantine provinces of Greece were completely overrun by Slav invaders who held them for more than 200 years before asking to be taken back by Byzantine empire. Few Byzantine Greek males are likely to have survived the original invasion — the Slavs were brutal even by the standards of the age. It is therefore highly unlikely that there are more than a few corpuscles, if any, of Macedonian blood running in the veins of modern Greeks.
“Macedonia” is the state name recognized by the United Nations but elsewhere including in the European Union, the inelegant “Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia — FYROM) is used. It would seem likely that the compromise that the Syriza Greek government is about to announce still includes the name ”Macedonia”.
The organizers of Sunday’s Athens demonstration claimed that 1.5 million people turned out. Police said the crowd was only around 140,000. Media pitched the number at no more than quarter of a million. But this is a significant figure in terms of 2011 anti-austerity demonstrations, the largest of which was around 300,000. The concern must be that this highly emotive but deeply flawed and shallow issue is being exploited by far-right groups to win supporters to their bigoted and xenophobic cause. Right now, the hard-pressed Greeks, who are for instance apparently now being made to pay their taxes for a change, feel the need to be mad about something. The naming of Macedonia is sufficiently irrational to fit the bill.Comment
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It's amusing that the greeks are the only ones hanging onto this historical myth...the rest of the world clearly sees how ridiculous it is.Originally posted by Pelagonija View Post
What is missing in the deconstruction of the greek argument is for more reports of the widespread ethnic cleansing perpetrated by the greeks against its Macedonian minority...only then will the world understand what the name 'issue' is really about.Comment
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Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
It is amazing how a modern day country is harassing R.Macedonia about the use of the statues Alexander and Philip.
Looking at the Linear distances between certain places to Pella:
Gevgelija 45 km
Bitola 105 km
Skopje 165 km
Athens 326 km
Sparta 415 km
It is logical people would know about and be in contact with the Macedonian kings and the closer the more likely.
Rather we are making apologies !!
Evidently and by all means people from today's R.Macedonia can use these historical figures and statues and no need to apologise to those distant neighbours.Comment
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...and then there's our friends from Asia Minor and shit-creek.Originally posted by Stojacanec View PostComment
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Шилегов: Александар Велики никогаш не бил дел од нашата “регуларна“ историјаOriginally posted by Niko777 View Post
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Sunday, February 11, 2018, by Andreas Weitzer
Demonstrations in Greece: Patriotism, populism or dangerous nationalism? - Andreas Weitzer
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From the article -
1)
For the Maltese it is not easy to fathom how difficult it is for some countries to forge a national identity, still considered a necessity in a world of borders and passports. We are a small island, where everyone speaks English and Maltese. We pulled together against the Turks, the Nazis and our colonial overlords the Brits, and are today at ease trading with the world.
Not so the Greeks. Like all Balkan countries, they consisted of a multi-ethnical patchwork – Turks, Albanians, Bulgarians, Vlachs and countless other ethnicities. To become a ‘nation state’ demanded violence.
Gaining independence from the Ottoman ‘yoke’, Greece was artfully moulded into an artifice of German romanticism, with the Bavarian Otto as their first king. The Ottoman and Byzantine past was erased and replaced by an image of Greek antiquity, complete with Pericles, the Parthenon and wafting togas. Today’s territory was marked out in bloody battles with its Balkan neighbours and 20th century Turkey. Greece suffered Hitler, was convulsed in a terrible civil war in 1946 and tested by dim-witted military dictators until 1974.
2)
“Macedonia is and will always be Greece,” thundered the Greek composer Mikis Theodarakis to a large crowd of protesters on Syntagma Square. “If our government is considering putting its signature under a deal that includes the term Macedonia, then they must ask the Greek people. It is not nationalism, it is patriotism to defend the homeland and its people.”
No, this is called populism. Cheered by the mob, this was a sad performance by the once internationally acclaimed artist, proclaimed communist and a Greek national treasure. The 93-year-old seemed to have lost it.
But so have millions of Greeks, who can buy into this. The idea that a people of two million, with an army of 8,000 regulars and 16,000 reservists, with no airplanes and only a handful of old Soviet-made helicopters, could pose a strategic or military threat to Greece is, of course, comical. It would be easier to see Greek expansionist desires towards their neighbour rather than the other way around (remember Cyprus?).Last edited by Carlin; 02-11-2018, 04:25 PM.Comment
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Exactly and we are apologising to these morons.Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
R.Macedonia should use the statues however they will and move on...Comment
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Parts from the same article you didn't find worth quoting:Originally posted by Carlin15 View PostSunday, February 11, 2018, by Andreas Weitzer
Demonstrations in Greece: Patriotism, populism or dangerous nationalism? - Andreas Weitzer
Read full article here - URL:
From the article -
It is not that Greece would not have been teased by its northern neighbour Macedonia. Europe’s most successful resistance leader in World War II, Josip Tito, collabo*rating closely with Greek communist partisans, had pro*mised them in 1944 to extend communism – and the Socialist Republic of Macedonia – to Thessaloniki, a city first ethnically cleansed of their sizable Turkish minority and then of its Jewish citizens. The Greek Orthodox Church, still of considerable influence today, has not forgotten.
Then, Macedonia’s national-populist government (2006-2016) went into nation-finding overdrive, putting crosses on every hilltop, naming streets, airports and businesses “Alexander the Great” or “Philipp II” and erecting a giant equestrian statue of Alexander on the main city square of the capital Skopje. The great conqueror was fashioned into the number one national hero – a European version of Genghis Khan, who became the ubiquitous ‘founding father’ in today’s Mongolia.
Middle class intellectuals in Skopje had objected against this in a ‘paint ball revolution’, peppering Alexander, the ministry of culture and all new buildings erected by the nationalist government with splashes of colour – not so much out of sympathy for the touchiness of their Greek neighbours but in protest against what was perceived as debased gangster baroque while the old Ottoman mosques, caravanserais and hammams fell into disrepair, as did the quaint townhouses of Debermala district.
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A thought not yet pondered by Macedonians, who are despe*rately trying to please their irate fellow Europeans. The new socialist prime minister of Macedonia, Zoran Zaev, who was elected in April 2017 during a tumultuous, violent battle bet*ween sitting parliamentarians and right-wing thugs (invited into the building by the outgoing government) wants to shake hands with Greece. He wants Greece to stop vetoing Macedonia’s place in the EU.
The Alexander airport was renamed “International Airport Skopje”, the Alexander highway to Greece will be renamed “friendship highway” and the ugly equestrian with the looks of a Walt Disney animation will be removed. The only thing the Macedonians want to keep is their name, in one way or the other. “New Macedonia” was suggested, or “Northern Macedonia”.
Yet the Greeks keep protesting in ever greater numbers, egged on by their tabloids and their popes.
Whether they are protesting against their hapless Prime Mi*nister Alexi Tsipras, who understands that this issue needs quick fixing, or against their innocent neighbours is not clear. “Okhi” – no – has a proud tradition in Greece, for good or bad.
For Europe, accession talks with west Balkan countries are an urgency. Another wave of refugees thronging through the Balkans can be expected any time soon. This would demand functioning borders and close cooperation (neither guaranteed by Turkey nor by Greece, for that matter). Russia’s growing influence in the region has to be contained too. But for Macedonia this is, in fact, a struggle for survival.
Its sizeable Albanian population (26 per cent), irenic for the time being, fought a bloody civil war with their Slavic brethren in the noughties. They form part of the government now and hope to pull the country into Europe.
If such dreams falter, they may seek a union with Albania, which is a NATO member already and has EU-candidate status. And many Slav Macedonians will re*member their Bulgarian relatives and seek citizenship and passports in Bulgaria, a proud member of the European Union.
What would remain then would be too broken to ever be a nation worthy of its name again.Comment
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A weekend trip from Melbourne to Athens to attend the protest rally for Macedonia
"It was my duty and what my soul needed," says Zoi Petalidou who traveled back and forth in two days
09 February 2018
SOTIRIS HATZIMANOLIS
I think the best she could be is a proud Greek of Pontian origins. What a pity she does not know the real history of the region.The journey from Australia to Greece is far from an easy one. You spend a whole day on air and when you arrive, you need a couple more to adjust. Imagine doing that just for the weekend.
Zoi Petalidou did just that: on Friday 2 February, she got off work, went to the airport, made the long journey, and on Monday she was back to work.
In the meantime, she got to be among the 140,000 people who flocked the Syntagma square to protest against the negotiation talks between Greece and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.
"I experienced the most beautiful thing that any Greek soul can offer, by just doing my duty," she says. "Because this is how I seet it. As my duty and what my soul needed."
The protest itself exceeded her expectations. "It's hard to put into words," she says, describing how she was one of the first to arrive, still exhausted from the arduous flight and the fact that she'd been working till the last minute, but was also one of the last to leave Athens' central square.
"Greek people were shouting, crying, singing along with me," she remembers.
"It was a beautiful spring day, it was something unprecedented. Sunday passed very quickly."
Her decision to do this unusual weekend trip came on the spur of the moment.
"I go wherever I can, whenever my country needs me," she says, and notes that there were others like her, coming from all parts of the world, although not for such a brief stay.
"I would do this in a heartbeat," she says, pointing to her background as a proud Macedonian of Pontian origins, born in Thessaloniki.
"Now it's time for the Melbourne rally," she says. "I will be there alongside all the people who organised the first successful protest for Macedonia on the 21st January.
Our joy and emotions are beyond words, because we just know what unites us and we fight for it, overcoming obstacles and people who want to undermine our actions with vague and unfounded accusations," she added.
Her "soul" would have been better served marching in Turkey.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.comComment
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But Pontians have more to do with it? Spare me you obsessed Greek moron.Originally posted by Amphipolis View PostRisto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.comComment
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