Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Amphipolis]

What pisses me off is the gigantic wave of imposters as well (the ones that you call 'Macedonian' today that were very similar to the 99.9% that you complain about today...you're a fuckin disgusting human being...hypocrite is probably your best quality.

You turn a blind eye toward the resettlement of hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Turks on Macedonian lands at the expense, the displacement, incarceration and murder of the indigenous Macedonian population but somehow the suffering of another wave of humanity disagrees with you...

Exchanged populations were not illegal, illegitimate or impostors so I don’t see how they relate to illegal immigrants that have to pretend they are persecuted by someone.

The Christians that arrived in the Macedonian lands were not Turks. Muslim/Turks were the ones that left to Turkey and their indigenousness in Macedonia is questionable (They represent both Turkish invasion and local Islamization and the mix of them).

We have to remember this is an individual who turns on the tv each day and gets to listen to politicians who tell him they are protecting an ancient legacy. They are a part of a 'national myth' unlike any other seen in Europe. 90% of those in Solun today are from Turkey but if you ask them they will tell you they are descended from Ancient Macedonians because that is what they are taught.
Imagine if everyone in Greece had the native language of their grandparents investigated? You'd then be asking yourself how many 'Greeks' you have remaining as a minority.

I’m sorry I don’t watch TV at all.

At the moment, Thessaloniki (as a unified metropolitan area) has a population that marginally exceeds 1M. Thus, it is in the peak of its’ history and has 6,6 times the population of 1912. It attracts people from everywhere, mostly North Greece. The people that come from refugees may be around 30-40%, mixed with non-refugees of course. For instance, 1/4th of my ancestry came with population exchange even though they had lived in Thessaloniki before and had left back to Asia Minor after the Big Fire.

Finding the mother-language of your grandparents does not need a special investigation. Everybody knows it already.

We don’t have Arvanites here but I have met several people of full or partial Cappadocian, Vlach, Slavic, Bulgarian ancestry. The largest community is (hands-down) the Pontic people and I have lived and grown up in areas of the city that started as refugee settlements, so I’m familiar with all the above people.

[tchaiku]

What pisses me off is the gigantic wave of imposters as well (the ones that you call 'Macedonian' today that were very similar to the 99.9% that you complain about today...you're a fuckin disgusting human being...hypocrite is probably your best quality.

You turn a blind eye toward the resettlement of hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Turks on Macedonian lands at the expense, the displacement, incarceration and murder of the indigenous Macedonian population but somehow the suffering of another wave of humanity disagrees with you...

Murder?

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[Solun]

Exchanged populations were not illegal, illegitimate or impostors so I don’t see how they relate to illegal immigrants that have to pretend they are persecuted by someone.

The Christians that arrived in the Macedonian lands were not Turks. Muslim/Turks were the ones that left to Turkey and their indigenousness in Macedonia is questionable (They represent both Turkish invasion and local Islamization and the mix of them).



I’m sorry I don’t watch TV at all.

At the moment, Thessaloniki (as a unified metropolitan area) has a population that marginally exceeds 1M. Thus, it is in the peak of its’ history and has 6,6 times the population of 1912. It attracts people from everywhere, mostly North Greece. The people that come from refugees may be around 30-40%, mixed with non-refugees of course. For instance, 1/4th of my ancestry came with population exchange even though they had lived in Thessaloniki before and had left back to Asia Minor after the Big Fire.

Finding the mother-language of your grandparents does not need a special investigation. Everybody knows it already.

We don’t have Arvanites here but I have met several people of full or partial Cappadocian, Vlach, Slavic, Bulgarian ancestry. The largest community is (hands-down) the Pontic people and I have lived and grown up in areas of the city that started as refugee settlements, so I’m familiar with all the above people.

I'm sure your opinion on the non existence of Christian Turks has been covered in depth in this forum. I'll just remind you of what you said earlier in this thread: Greek propaganda uses different lies per case

Mathematics does not appear to be your strength. Labelled the "City of Refugees" which you describe as only being 30-40% people from refugees.

I'm surprised you've never met anyone of Armenian ancestry. Surely they were not all sent to Athens. Maybe you've just not met anyone brave enough to tell you their Armenian ancestry.

Tell me your opinion on the ancestry of Papathemelis?

[Phoenix]

Murder?

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murder = the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

[Solun]

Murder?

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Likely already seen by most

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8WyZjJwrsM

[tchaiku]

murder = the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

Thanks for the definition but I was aware of the meaning of that word
I thought Greeks did not commit genocide towards Macedonians in 20th century, they did however expell some hunderds of thousands, unless I am missing something.

[Phoenix]

Thanks for the definition but I was aware of the meaning of that word
I thought Greeks did not commit genocide towards Macedonians in 20th century, they did however expell some hunderds of thousands, unless I am missing something.

something from the forum...

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=572

[Amphipolis]

I'm sure your opinion on the non existence of Christian Turks has been covered in depth in this forum. I'll just remind you of what you said earlier in this thread: Greek propaganda uses different lies per case

Mathematics does not appear to be your strength. Labelled the "City of Refugees" which you describe as only being 30-40% people from refugees.

I'm surprised you've never met anyone of Armenian ancestry. Surely they were not all sent to Athens. Maybe you've just not met anyone brave enough to tell you their Armenian ancestry.

Tell me your opinion on the ancestry of Papathemelis?

1. Yes, according to Onur (a Turkish member of the forum) these people were not Turkified Romans/Christians but Christianized Turks from the very early period of the Turkish entry in the area. At least, this was a pro-Turkish opinion.

2. Mathematics and statistics ARE my strength and you're lucky to discuss with an expert in the field. The number I gave was a very quick and rough estimation and I would correct it to 35-40%. Here’s some numbers.

In the late 1920s (after the population exchanges) the population of Thessaloniki was 320k with a 47% percentage of refugees. Note: This does not refer to Metropolitan Thessaloniki but includes the surrounding villages, yet it does not go as far as Langadas. It’s the best I could find.

Since then, the rest 2/3 of the population come from the natural growth but mostly from new waves of newcomers from all around Greece, but most likely Northern Greece. The percentages of refugees in the surrounding areas was:

Macedonia (except Thessaloniki, that refers to Greek Macedonia): 45%
Thrace: 35%
Other areas: 5% (average)

The weighted mix of these 4 percentages will give you the final percentage, but of course we don’t know the exact origins of the newcomers. I’d say 50% of them should come from Macedonia.

3. I have met Armenians but they are very few. The Jews are even fewer. Both groups have unique names and are easily spotted.

4. I had to check. Papathemelis was born in Thessaloniki. His father or mother (?) comes from Ossa (Visoka) a mountainous village in Thessaloniki district that was Slavic-speaking, though rather fanatic Patriarchist and pro-Greek. I couldn’t find if he has other places of origin.

[Amphipolis]

Likely already seen by most
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8WyZjJwrsM

The Muslim minority of Thrace is the only legally acknowledged minority, meaning there are legal provisions and privileges about it. These people don’t have Greek or Hellenized names (as the video suggests) and they are certainly not presented as Christians or converted Greeks. They contain three linguistic groups, Turks, Pomaks (Bulgarian Muslims) and gypsies but they are all protected by Turkey and receive Turkish education.

The Chams are Muslims Albanians from Epirus that were ALL expelled after World War II as Nazi collaborators. Their community was actually used by Italy as the pretext for declaring war against Greece.

The people of Kilkis were also expelled in 1912 (all of them) and I believe moved to the East and joined Bulgarian Army. Being victims themselves I think they were later actors of some slaughters in Thrace where they stayed for a while and later ended up in Bulgaria.

[Solun]

1. Yes, according to Onur (a Turkish member of the forum) these people were not Turkified Romans/Christians but Christianized Turks from the very early period of the Turkish entry in the area. At least, this was a pro-Turkish opinion.

2. Mathematics and statistics ARE my strength and you're lucky to discuss with an expert in the field. The number I gave was a very quick and rough estimation and I would correct it to 35-40%. Here’s some numbers.

In the late 1920s (after the population exchanges) the population of Thessaloniki was 320k with a 47% percentage of refugees. Note: This does not refer to Metropolitan Thessaloniki but includes the surrounding villages, yet it does not go as far as Langadas. It’s the best I could find.

Since then, the rest 2/3 of the population come from the natural growth but mostly from new waves of newcomers from all around Greece, but most likely Northern Greece. The percentages of refugees in the surrounding areas was:

Macedonia (except Thessaloniki, that refers to Greek Macedonia): 45%
Thrace: 35%
Other areas: 5% (average)

The weighted mix of these 4 percentages will give you the final percentage, but of course we don’t know the exact origins of the newcomers. I’d say 50% of them should come from Macedonia.

3. I have met Armenians but they are very few. The Jews are even fewer. Both groups have unique names and are easily spotted.

4. I had to check. Papathemelis was born in Thessaloniki. His father or mother (?) comes from Ossa (Visoka) a mountainous village in Thessaloniki district that was Slavic-speaking, though rather fanatic Patriarchist and pro-Greek. I couldn’t find if he has other places of origin.

2. You are an expert at reading Greek statistical data. Completely impartial of course that Greek statistical data. It's sad that even wikipedia is only as accurate as the opinion of its writer.

4. I'm surprised you'd have to check. What chance others knowing if you have to check. At least you now know the language spoken in any village outside of Solun. It is also the same language spoken by many of those your Greek statistical data categorised as Turks.

[Niko777]

Today

[Karposh]

Does this mean the "Warrior on a Horse" statue is next?

[Phoenix]

Today

That picture represents the systematic dismantling of Macedonia.

[Risto the Great]

To be fair, Greece is also making a few concessions ... Wait ... Hang on ....

[Karposh]

That picture represents the systematic dismantling of Macedonia.

It's confronting isn't it. When you first see it you can't help thinking there's something really wrong with it and that's exactly what it is - The systematic dismantling of Macedonia. No need to fret though. There's actually method in this madness by Zaev & Co. These new implementations will create unity among Macedonians and there will be no more divisions among us. No longer will there be a split camp between "Antichki" Makedonci and "Slovenski" Makedonci - Just Gornomakedonci.

As one of them said, I think it was Dimitrov, "Aleksandar was never a part of our history anyway".