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Old 05-31-2018, 04:44 AM   #671
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http://meta.mk/en/on-a-referendum-61...ska-macedonia/

The majority of citizens – 61.5% – would vote “no” on a referendum on the name “Republic of Ilindenska Macedonia”, showed a poll conducted by M-prospect in cooperation with MCIC

The majority of ethnic Macedonians, ie 70.5%, would vote with a “no”. The vast majority of VMRO-DPMNE sympathizers would also not support this proposal, ie with a “no” vote they make up 92.7% of the vote. Ethnic Albanians in 52.8% of cases answered that the Republic of Ilindenska Macedonia is an acceptable solution for them. For supporters of SDSM this proposal is acceptable in 56.4% of cases, while for DUI supporters, 62.5%.
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:28 AM   #672
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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
Really, all there is to say to Macedonians over there is cestito ime.

What this means for Macedonians in the diaspora is still unclear. It is likely that the final battles will return here. In Australia I suspect the Greek community will try to rename us - same as they attempted to back in the 90s. We managed to defeat that through the courts, many thanks to the AMHRC (Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee vs. State of Victoria, (HREOC, 8 September 2000)). Its difficult to say how that will play out this time around.

Then there is the inevitable divide within our diaspora communities. Those that will accept the new order (because, quite frankly, they're a bunch of vrti kapi) and those that will remain Macedonians. I foresee potential conflict played out, which very well could lead to property disputes over community and sporting clubs, associations, assets etc. This could have very profound and expensive ramifications for us here.

Though, I hope that I'm wrong.
Iím not sure how relevant this dispute will be here if FYROM changes its name. Personally speaking I donít see the point to continue the battle here when the real battle has been lost where it counts most. Itís imperative that we keep our nation back home in order to survive as a distinct culture, this is where all tangible efforts should be focused on.

If you look at the those cunt Americans, the biggest ethnic group by heritage is German. That didnít stop them destroying Germany in WWI/II for the sake of economics.
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:47 AM   #673
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Originally Posted by Pelagonija View Post
Iím not sure how relevant this dispute will be here if FYROM changes its name. Personally speaking I donít see the point to continue the battle here when the real battle has been lost where it counts most. Itís imperative that we keep our nation back home in order to survive as a distinct culture, this is where all tangible efforts should be focused on.

If you look at the those cunt Americans, the biggest ethnic group by heritage is German. That didnít stop them destroying Germany in WWI/II for the sake of economics.
Just because they jump off the cliff it does not mean that we should too. I would not accept my government trying to force a new identity on me.
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:10 AM   #674
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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
Just because they jump off the cliff it does not mean that we should too. I would not accept my government trying to force a new identity on me.
Where do you think we would stand as a diaspora...surely we have our universal rights to self determination, regardless of the future nomenclature of Zaev's La La Land...

Fuck that, I won't be writing Northern, Gorna, Illidenska, Krushevska or any other prefix or suffix, to any question regarding place of birth, language or identity...
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:26 AM   #675
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Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
Where do you think we would stand as a diaspora...surely we have our universal rights to self determination, regardless of the future nomenclature of Zaev's La La Land...

Fuck that, I won't be writing Northern, Gorna, Illidenska, Krushevska or any other prefix or suffix, to any question regarding place of birth, language or identity...
We do have rights but can we enforce them is the question. The other problem is that Australia has already started down a path of ignoring and redefining internationally codified human rights, not to mention uncodified principles of natural law. In some cases it has never even legislated human rights instruments that it has signed up to and its a real question whether our courts are obligated to protect them. There have been many instances in which they do not and its a complete travesty of justice. Finally, it costs a lot of money to prosecute these cases.

In other cases there will be nothing we can do about it because it hinges on the republic. For example, I'm a certified NAATI translator from Macedonian into English. If Macedonia were to change the name of the language there would be a concurrent change in my certification. I would then have to make the choice of being a gornomakedonski to English translator or giving it up. Even if we were able to stop NAATI from doing that, it would be completely impractical because there would be no market for Macedonian translation work. Government documents from gornamakedonija would require translation from gornomakedonski and not Macedonian. And the bulk of translation work is in personal documents like birth certificates, passports etc.

I think we would end up with mixed results at best. I think we could save our identity but the name of the language would be in question - I think that hinges much more on the idiotism over there. Then theres the inescapable link to the name of the country. What to do with that? We already have it with fyrom. You can write Macedonia in a census form but you will be counted under gornamakedonia in the final tally.

But again, willingly jumping over the cliff is not an option.
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Last edited by Vangelovski; 05-31-2018 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:40 AM   #676
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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
We do have rights but can we enforce them is the question. The other problem is that Australia has already started down a path of ignoring and redefining internationally codified human rights, not to mention uncodified principles of natural law. In some cases it has never even legislated human rights instruments that it has signed up to and its a real question whether our courts are obligated to protect them. There have been many instances in which they do not and its a complete travesty of justice. Finally, it costs a lot of money to prosecute these cases.

In other cases there will be nothing we can do about it because it hinges on the republic. For example, I'm a certified NAATI translator from Macedonian into English. If Macedonia were to change the name of the language there would be a concurrent change in my certification. I would then have to make the choice of being a gornomakedonski to English translator or giving it up. Even if we were able to stop NAATI from doing that, it would be completely impractical because there would be no market for Macedonian translation work. Government documents from gornamakedonija would require translation from gornomakedonski and not Macedonian. And the bulk of translation work is in personal documents like birth certificates, passports etc.

I think we would end up with mixed results at best. I think we could save our identity but the name of the language would be in question - I think that hinges much more on the idiotism over there. Then theres the inescapable link to the name of the country. What to do with that? We already have it with fyrom. You can write Macedonia in a census form but you will be counted under gornamakedonia in the final tally.

But again, willingly jumping over the cliff is not an option.
As mentioned by you and others previously, it's going to be one hell of a shit fight moving forward from this nightmare that Zaev has put in motion...It's ridiculous enough that he insists on changing the name of the country but it's an entirely new animal to change language and identity as well if he goes the whole hog to appease the greeks...
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:52 PM   #677
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It should just be called EU Transit Lounge. Doesn't deserve to be a country if the citizens don't care.
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:09 PM   #678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
...In other cases there will be nothing we can do about it because it hinges on the republic. For example, I'm a certified NAATI translator from Macedonian into English. If Macedonia were to change the name of the language there would be a concurrent change in my certification. I would then have to make the choice of being a gornomakedonski to English translator or giving it up. Even if we were able to stop NAATI from doing that, it would be completely impractical because there would be no market for Macedonian translation work. Government documents from gornamakedonija would require translation from gornomakedonski and not Macedonian. And the bulk of translation work is in personal documents like birth certificates, passports etc...
Pressured by their Greek colleagues, I think the government will definitely try to rename the Macedonian language in Australia to Gornomakedonski should we become Gorna Makedonija but I also think the final decision all hinges on the Aegean Macedonians living here. They've been living in this country for much longer than us cousins from the republic and, if I'm not mistaken, they make up a much higher proportion of Macedonians in this country than those from the republic even if their loyalties are divided roughly 2/3 pro Greek and 1/3 pro Macedonian (as far as I know).

The Aegean Macedonians have to stand up and be counted if this issue ever arises in this country and tell the government "hang on, we're not from Gorna Makedonija, we have nothing to do with Gorna Makedonija and our language is Macedonian - so leave it alone!"

A good example would be North & South Korea. No one dares to rename their language. It is known as simply Korean, as it should be.
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:37 PM   #679
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https://euobserver.com/foreign/141952

Macedonia expects 'breakthrough' in Greece talks

Macedonian prime minister Zoran Zaev has said a "breakthrough" on the name dispute is imminent, as he prepares to speak to his Greek counterpart on Friday (1 June).

"I will speak with [Greek] PM [Alexis] Tsipras, after which I expect a breakthrough in the talks," he said in a speech on Wednesday, prior to a phone conference with Athens to be held today.

Zaev said there was already "an agreement on the principles, and the formal and legal aspect of the agreement."

He did not give details, but the MKD news website reported that the name 'Northern Macedonia' was acceptable to both sides.

The deal is also likely to involve changes to the Macedonian constitution to remove what Greece says are irredentist claims.

Greece has blocked the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia's (its UN designation) progress on the EU and Nato path for decades on grounds that the name Macedonia (its informal title) implied a claim to the Greek region of the same name.

A quick breakthrough could see EU states open accession talks with Macedonia at their June summit and Nato invite it to join at a summit in July.

The deal would then be ratified by Macedonian MPs and by a non-binding referendum, Zaev said.

"We all agree that a referendum will be held in September or October when we expect the citizens to give us directions for our future moves," he said.

Macedonia hopes to be ready to enter the EU in seven to 10 years, providing that the French and Dutch leaders, two enlargement-sceptics, do not block the opening of negotiations in June.

Speaking in Brussels earlier this week, Greek foreign minister Nikos Kotzias also sounded upbeat.

"The documents that have been drafted at a ministerial level will be delivered to the two prime ministers who will discuss between themselves and reach a final deal," he said, after meeting his Macedonian counterpart in the EU capital on Monday.

The EU foreign relations chief, Federica Mogherini, who also spoke to them, said the talks were "extremely encouraging and promising" and that she expected an accord "in the coming days or weeks".

"This will, I believe, have a transformative, powerful effect not only on relations between the two countries, but also on the entire region of the Balkans, and also on Europe," she said.

The breakthrough in the UN-sponsored name talks would help restore faith in the value of diplomacy in turbulent times on the global stage, she added.
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Old 05-31-2018, 08:03 PM   #680
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Zaev: Name solution to be acceptable for all ethnic communities
Skopje, 31 May 2018 (MIA) - I am convinced that the possible name solution will be acceptable for all ethnic communities. I have not consulted all of them, but if a name solution is reached, it will be acceptable for all ethnic communities, Prime Minister Zoran Zaev said on Thursday.
PM Zaev told a Q&A session in Parliament that details are very important in a negotiating process, but without crossing the red lines, so that Macedonia achieves its strategic goals of NATO membership invitation and EU accession talks date.
"A name solution will make this attainable. A name solution eliminates all obstacles for a NATO invitation. Therefore I try to be cautious, share information when possible, even to the smaller opposition parties, regardless of their ethnicity, because I believe these issues require a national consensus," said Zaev.
According to him, DUI is fully briefed on the course of the talks, but SDSM also has ethnic Albanians within its membership who are part of the Parliament.
"Both myself and FM Dimitrov want the possible agreement to be acceptable to all ethnic communities. we share the same homeland, we were all born and live here," said Zaev.
He urged everyone to use caution when giving statements, because Macedonia's future is at stake.
"I believe we can all contribute to the solutions, resulting in removal of the injustice imposed on our country regarding its NATO and EU membership aspirations," underlined PM Zaev”.

Does this dimwit even know what he is saying. What a complete fool. Look at the last line of his statement “resulting in removal of the injustice imposed on our country regarding its NATO and EU membership aspirations,". Zajko you subhuman fuck the injustices imposed on our country are the forced change of name so to be accepted into NATO and the EU, the injustices imposed on our country are not being accepted into the EU under our constitutional name.
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