Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > News and Politics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-10-2018, 06:03 PM   #1
Gocka
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ohrid
Posts: 2,142
Gocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud of
Default Name Change Agreed to between Greece and Macedonia

I haven't seen anyone comment yet, I can only assume the news hasn't filtered its way down yet or its not true.

Various outlets have reported that Macedonia and Greece have reached an agreement on the name "issue". Bujar Osmani, the Deputy Prime Minister for European Affairs, was just in Greece these past few days and apparently it was negotiated that Macedonia and Greece agreed to either New Macedonia, or Vardar Macedonia. It was also reported that they agreed to not hold referendums in their respective countries.

So we sent a shiptar to decide what Macedonia's identity should be, Bravo Macedonia, bravo.

Can anyone confirm this? Macedonian media seems quiet on the issue.

https://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index...mpression=true

https://www.ft.com/content/16be1f56-...3-edaa71fb5924

http://24vesti.mk/ds-referendumot-za...-konsultativen

Last edited by Gocka; 01-10-2018 at 06:09 PM.
Gocka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 07:05 PM   #2
vicsinad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,311
vicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud of
Default

This is what Osmani said today. He has names, but doesn't want to disclose them (google translation of meta.mk article...link below)

There is a consensus, the word Macedonia to have in any variant in resolving the name dispute, Greece accepts it, but we still do not have to enter that debate, said Deputy Prime Minister for European Affairs Bujar Osmani in the evening's TV show "24 "After his return from Athens and meetings with Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Kodzias and the Deputy Foreign Minister in charge of European Affairs and International Economic Relations of Greece, George Katrugalos.

He added that there were talk of possible variants of the name, but as he said "it will not help the process if it is publicly auctioned with them because they are not yet matured."

- Some of the proposals need to be sufficiently matured, in order to withstand the pressure of the public. I can not get into details because I will not help the process. We are trying to find an acceptable solution that does not have to hit the most sensitive values ​​of the two countries - said Osmani.

He added that resolving the problem is a complex process, but sees the will of both governments to overcome pressures on a daily political basis and find a solution.

- We are trying to break all the aspects of the issue. This issue has a rational core, but many emotional layers have been laid over it over the years, which should be removed - Osmani added.

http://meta.mk/osmani-postoi-konsenz...orot-za-imeto/
vicsinad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 07:55 PM   #3
Tomche Makedonche
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ostralija
Posts: 1,117
Tomche Makedonche is on a distinguished road
Default

https://www.ft.com/content/16be1f56-...3-edaa71fb5924

Macedonia says new push underway to resolve naming dispute with Greece

The Republic of Macedonia’s deputy prime minister for European affairs said on Tuesday that a new push was underway to settle a 25-year-old dispute with Greece over the country’s name.

After a meeting with Greek foreign minister Nikos Kotzias in Athens, Bujar Osmani said both sides were committed to resolve the issue within six months.

They have already agreed that Macedonia, known internationally as Fyrom (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia), should adopt a “composite” name.

According to diplomats, this would most likely be either “New Macedonia” or, in a geographical reference, Vardarska Macedonia. The use of a composite name would avoid confusion with Greece’s own region of Macedonia.

Prospects for solving the name issue improved after a moderate government took office in Macedonia following elections last year.

If a deal is reached, Greece will drop its veto of Macedonia’s membership of Nato and the start of EU accession talks by its neighbour.

“2018 is a golden year of opportunity for our country to make progress with Euro-Atlantic integration…That is why we are committed to finding a solution,” Mr Osmani said after the talks.

The two sides are due to hold formal talks with Matthew Nimetz, a UN mediator, in New York January 17-19.

Dimitris Tzannacopoulos, the Greek government spokesman, said both countries wanted to “create the widest possible consensus to put behind us a problem that has burdened us and the wider region for the past 25 years.

”Macedonia agreed in 1995 that it would be known internationally as “Fyrom” as a temporary measure until a deal on a name acceptable to Greece was reached.

Successive Greek governments, under pressure from nationalist and far-right political factions, blocked the country’s attempts to join Nato and the EU on grounds that its name implied a territorial claim on Greek Macedonia
__________________
“There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

Last edited by Tomche Makedonche; 01-10-2018 at 07:59 PM.
Tomche Makedonche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 07:56 PM   #4
Risto the Great
Senior Member
 
Risto the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Colony of Australia
Posts: 14,679
Risto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicsinad View Post
- Some of the proposals need to be sufficiently matured, in order to withstand the pressure of the public.
Wouldn't want to pressurise the public would we.

The problem with Fyromians is that they think Albanians act in Macedonia's interest.

If only Macedonians were able to make decisions there.
__________________
Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA

"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Risto the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 07:58 PM   #5
Tomche Makedonche
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ostralija
Posts: 1,117
Tomche Makedonche is on a distinguished road
Default

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/m...ispute-n836396

Macedonia and Greece vow to solve decades-old name dispute

LONDON — What's in a name? For the uneasy European neighbors of Macedonia and Greece, quite a lot actually.

In one of the strangest international disputes still playing out on the world stage, these two countries have been quarreling for more than a quarter of a century about what Macedonia should be called.

It's not just symbolic: The dispute has seen Greece block Macedonia's potential accession to NATO and the European Union, as well as imposing a brief but crippling trade embargo in the mid-1990s.

Some analysts even claim this perpetual state of limbo could create opportunities for further Russian meddling on Europe's southeastern flank.

This week has given hope, however, to a possible thaw in this long-running impasse.

Both governments agreed to renew efforts to find a solution Tuesday, and a fresh round of discussions with a United Nations mediator are due to begin later this month.

This came after Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev suggested Sunday that a final compromise could come within the next six months, according to Reuters.

"I'm the most optimistic I've been for many years," according to Jonathan Eyal, the international director at the London-based Royal United Services Institute think tank, who has acted as an E.U. adviser on the former Yugoslav states. "The question is whether they will pluck up the courage to finally do it."

Loggerheads

The argument dates to 1991, when Macedonia broke away from the fragmenting socialist federation of Yugoslavia and chose its official name.

Greece vehemently objected, saying "Macedonia" was a Greek word dating to an ancient kingdom of the same name. It also pointed to its own northern region of Macedonia and the millions of ethnic Greeks who live there and regard themselves as Macedonians.

Its fledgling neighbor disagreed, citing its own historical precedent, and the two countries have been at loggerheads since.

One of the key figures at the center of all this is no modern politician but a towering figure of the ancient world. Both countries claim historical ties to Alexander the Great, the ruler whose military campaigns redrew vast swathes of the world map 2,300 years ago.

What's changed now is that Greece's government, led by the left-wing party Syriza, does not share the nationalist or patriotic tendencies of previous administrations.

With Syriza's future uncertain ahead of elections next year, politicians in Macedonia may believe that the window of compromise is about to slam shut, Eyal said.

An emerging possibility is that some sort of qualifier — such as "Nova Macedonia," meaning "New Macedonia" — could be adopted. Since a 1995 accord, the country has been referred to as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, or FYROM, at the United Nations.

The dispute has hurt Macedonia not only economically and internationally but also stunted its fledgling development in other areas, according to Biljana Vankovska, a professor at the University of Skopje, in Macedonia's capital.

The trade embargo of the 1990s had "huge economic consequences for the already devastated country," according to Vankovska, and she said it also created an ideal environment for "burgeoning organized crime, smuggling, and gray economy in general."

The Macedonian government claims most of its people would favor a solution that would allow them to enter into NATO and the E.U. But Vankovska is skeptical.

"The overwhelming majority of ethnic Macedonians ... are not willing to trade with their identity for any foreign-policy reward," she said.

One section of the population who may be open to the idea are the 25 percent who identify as ethnic Albanians, Vankovska added. Albania, the country, is already in NATO, and membership for Macedonia would be a unifying force for the region's diaspora.

'Suspended animation'

The ripples of this nomenclature feud have been felt beyond the borders of Macedonia, a landlocked country of around 2 million people that's the size of New Hampshire.

Macedonia has sent troops to support the U.S.-led wars in Iran and Afghanistan, but NATO says it must resolve its dispute with Greece before it can formally join.

Officials in the tiny country, as well as some Western analysts, have suggested that its lack of formal membership puts it under threat from meddling by Moscow.

Montenegro, another former Yugoslav state to the north, claimed that in 2016 a group of Serb and Russian nationalists attempted a coup to sabotage its imminent NATO membership. The Kremlin denies involvement in the alleged plot.

Some, such as Vankovska, feel that such worries are overblown and calls them a "cheap political trick" by Macedonia's government. But others, like Eyal at RUSI, do see danger in having states like Macedonia in what he calls "suspended animation" — neither allied with Russia nor the West.

"The key objective is to try to maintain stability in what remains one of Europe's least stable countries and to try to stop Russians causing mischief like they did when Montenegro tried to join NATO," he said. "There's no question that the Russians are interested in the region
__________________
“There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio
Tomche Makedonche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 08:00 PM   #6
Risto the Great
Senior Member
 
Risto the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Colony of Australia
Posts: 14,679
Risto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond repute
Default

EDITED


Same old bullshit
__________________
Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA

"Holding my breath for the revolution."

Last edited by Risto the Great; 01-11-2018 at 01:50 AM.
Risto the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 08:12 PM   #7
Tomche Makedonche
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ostralija
Posts: 1,117
Tomche Makedonche is on a distinguished road
Default

Reports on possible names secretly agreed to between diplomats and politicians have been flying around since Zajko got into power, so until something official has been released by either government, I would take any of these reported proposals with a grain of salt.

What I think has some merit though is the recent notion of seeking to remove the choice from the public (which has been implied in some of the recent statements reported by the media).

I think both countries are now aiming to make sure any proposal doesn't go to a referendum but is decided by parliament (which is contrary to the stance both SDS and DPNE have historically expressed)
__________________
“There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio
Tomche Makedonche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 09:48 PM   #8
vicsinad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,311
vicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post

I think both countries are now aiming to make sure any proposal doesn't go to a referendum but is decided by parliament (which is contrary to the stance both SDS and DPNE have historically expressed)
This is what it seems like.
vicsinad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 12:47 AM   #9
Stojacanec
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 792
Stojacanec is on a distinguished road
Default

Bravo Zaev, you would achieve what others have been trying to avoid: to capitulate.
Stojacanec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 11:50 AM   #10
Stevce
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 152
Stevce is on a distinguished road
Default

I don't understand why the people who live in Macedonia are okay with this. Where is the pride for your nation? I have two uncles in Macedonia who support this nonsense stating that we are European and need to join the european community. WTF? My relatives who are against it believe it is only a matter of time before the name change happens. What is the general feeling in Macedonia are they going to sell out?
Stevce is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump