Russian Influence in the modern Bulgarian Language

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  • Delodephius
    Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 736

    #31
    In the above texts, Macedonian (OCS and modern) have the 'da' (да) conjunction, whereas the rest do not. It seems to be one of the main characteristics that distinguishes Macedonian from Moravian, at least in the above examples anyway.
    The above text does distinguish, but that is because the Moravian Lord's Prayer is a reconstruction. It is supposed to be based on the tradition of the Lord's Prayer used in Slovak, Slovene and Czech. But the conjunction da nonetheless exists in the given languages or dialects. Slovak literary language uses it seldom but in older texts it exists, as it does in many dialects. It is that instead of a clause da bude an imperative one is used buď. (I can't remember how the former first clause is called. Any help?) But its truth, we don't exactly know which clause the Moravian Lord's Prayer used, only the ones used later. It is as easily possible that the clause with da was used but fell out of favour or the imperative clause was considered more appropriate.
    Last edited by Delodephius; 05-16-2009, 06:27 PM.
    अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
    उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
    This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
    But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      #32
      Originally posted by macorules94 View Post
      I'm pretty sure Macedonia invented slavic. Not coz I think so, but I have proof.
      .... snipped
      C'mon man, you have limited your choice to 2 modern languages (Macedonian and Bulgarian).

      The first time I posted amongst the likes of SoM/Slovak which was ??? 4 years ago ... I felt quite humbled by their commitment to historical revelations and certainly read much more than I posted.

      In reference to your post, why not critically analyse OCS before commenting futher?
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • macorules94
        Junior Member
        • Apr 2009
        • 28

        #33
        Yeh, but because everyone believes that Bulgaria made it

        Thats why

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13669

          #34
          Originally posted by macorules94 View Post
          Yeh, but because everyone believes that Bulgaria made it

          Thats why
          Only Bulgarians believe their own garbage.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Delodephius
            Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 736

            #35
            I don't even understand what is he talking about. That someone invented "Slavic"? What does that mean? Language? If he by Macedonians mean Constantine Cyril and Methodius they (if they!) invented the Glagolitic alphabet, not a language. There was no conlanging (constructing languages) back then, as far as I know. And how could they invent a language half of Europe was already speaking back then? There are copies of Slavonic texts older than Constantine's and Methodius' work (not the copies, the texts copies are of).
            अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
            उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
            This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
            But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13669

              #36
              Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
              There are copies of Slavonic texts older than Constantine's and Methodius' work (not the copies, the texts copies are of).
              I was not aware of this until you informed us of that text in Latin letters, which I found extremely interesting as it is not something that is promoted (enough) when discussions take place concerning OCS and the Slavic languages.
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13669

                #37
                Slovak, what do you make of the below?

                http://www.oshchima.com/Historical%2...ents/hdoc1.pdf
                HENRIK TUMA ON MACEDONIA AND THE MACEDONIANS (1398)
                1912...Macedonia has 2,360,000 inhabitants, 52.4% of which, i.e. 1,182,000, are Slavs. There are half a million Turks, i.e. 22%. 230,000 Albanians, i.e. 5.7%, 80,000 Tsintsars or Wallachians, i.e. 3.6%, 70,000 Jews or 3%, and 54,000 Gypsies or 2.4%. The Greeks live in South Macedonia. The Turks mostly along the Vardar ravine and the Aegean Sea. The Jews live in Salonika. .....Of decisive significance for the realization of the South-Slav idea are the state and legal circumstances. Almost half of the South Slavs live in Austria-Hungary, i.e. 5, 700,000 Serbo-Croats and 1,200,000 Slovenes, while in the Balkans there live 3.5 million Serbs, 4 million .2 Bulgarians and 1,200,000 Macedonians. (1397)...Linguistically, all the Slav groups are related. The philologist, Mr Jagic, Ph.D., (1388) considers there are five dialects: Slovenian (kajkavian), Croatian (cakavian), Serbian (stokavian), Macedonian and Bulgarian. There literary languages have developed from these dialects; Slovenian, Serbian and Bulgarian. The South Macedonians (1388) have preserved the Old Slavonic language for us. The Holy Scripture, a gift by SS. Cyril and Methodius, was not written, as the philologist, Mr Miklosic, Ph.D., (1400) claims, in the language of the Panonian Slavs, but, as is natural and as was proved by the philologist, Mr. Oblak, Ph.D, (1401) in the language of the Slav apostles, i.e. in the Macedonian dialect from the vicinity of Salonika. ..
                Do you know these scholars that the writer speaks of here?
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Delodephius
                  Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 736

                  #38
                  I know of Miklošić. He has done a lot of work with Old Church Slavonic.
                  अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
                  उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
                  This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
                  But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13669

                    #39
                    How about Oblak, do you know him?
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • Delodephius
                      Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 736

                      #40
                      I found an article in Slovenian about him. Vatroslav Ignacij Oblak. He was a young Slavist from Slovenia, died at age of 32 (1864-1896). He studied Slavic dialects, notably Macedonian, Croatian and Slovenian. By studying Macedonian dialects around Solun he found they are more similar to Old Church Slavonic than Slovenian, as was believed at that time. He was one of the first Macedonists, i.e. expert in Macedonian Studies.
                      अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
                      उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
                      This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
                      But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13669

                        #41
                        Very interesting.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13669

                          #42



                          Oblak, Vatroslav (1864 – 1896), Slovak philologist. Letter to Mikhail Fedorovich Raevsky. October 12, 1882. Cilli.
                          1 f., 228 x 144 mm, paper. Coll. 608. I.V. Pomialovsky. No. 3620.
                          Vatroslav Oblak was known for his research in the Macedonian, Serbian, Croatian and Slovenian dialectology.

                          Oblak Symposium in Ljubljana
                          On December 12-13, 1996, the Filozofska Fakulteta of the University of Ljubljana hosted the Mednarodni simpozij Obdoja 17: Vatroslav Oblak in recognition of the 100th anniversary of his death. The conference was organized by Prof. Alenka Sivic-Dular of the University of Ljubljana, and attended by scholars from 10 countries. Papers were read by SSS members Marc L. Greenberg ("Vatroslav Oblak and Early Innovations in South Slavic Vowel Systems) and Breda Pogorelec ("Oblakov prispevek za zgodovino slovenskega knjiznega jezika. Gradivo in teorija"); Iskra Curkina could not attend, but appeared on the program. The conference coincided with an outstanding exhibit, "The Bible in Slovenia", at the Narodna galerija, which conference participants visited.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13669

                            #43
                            The enclitic status of the article in Contemporary Standard Bulgarian and Contemporary Standard Macedonian is investigated by comparing its junctural and accentual properties with those of undisputed enclitics in each language. (Author/RM)


                            The Definite Article in Bulgarian and Macedonian

                            The enclitic status of the article in Contemporary Standard Bulgarian and Contemporary Standard Macedonian is investigated by comparing its junctural and accentual properties with those of undisputed enclitics in each language.
                            Can anybody get their hands on this text? It would be an interesting read no doubt. I am curious to know if the definite article was present in literature from the 12th century onwards.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13669

                              #44




                              That is a part of it.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13669

                                #45
                                Courtesy of Daskalot.



                                Interesting text, but does not discuss anything concerning the origin of the definite article.
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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