Ancient Balkan Languages - Proto Slavic Words

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  • makedonin
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 1668

    Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
    Anybody else heard of it?
    As you put it in the sentence, I would use it similarly, like:

    Ne se opinjaj sea..... meaning don't make theatre about certain thing, don't make tensed situation.

    I think it is version of "Napinja" > to make something tight, or tensed.
    To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      Originally posted by makedonin View Post
      That is one way to I would use the word.

      Other way, is "Choek ne mozhe da ti Uidisa nisho" meaning

      No one can't make it right to you
      We say:
      Kak te udisa = whatever suits you
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • makedonin
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1668

        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
        We say:
        Kak te udisa = whatever suits you
        you can put it that way too.

        Anybody ever heard "Sardisa" ?

        See last post here
        Last edited by makedonin; 03-01-2009, 07:26 AM.
        To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13670

          I have heard of Sardisa many times, it was prevalent during the Ottoman era hence the reason why some believe it is Turkish. For example, in the film "Ilinden", in reference to the Turkish attack on Krushevo, one person says, "go sardisa gradot" - they surrounded the city.

          The fact that your search on this word has not given a conclusive Turkish etymology is interesting to say the least. I am not sure if we have stumbled on a similar set of suffixes on some Macedonian words, but check this out:

          Bendisa
          Kandisa
          Sardisa
          Udisa


          What do you make of it?
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            Slovak, what do you think mate?
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Tribunal
              Junior Member
              • Feb 2009
              • 10

              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
              My thoughts exactly. Used in one song in Thrace compared to being understood in nearly all Macedonia seems a no-brainer. It may have been a Thracian word by origin given its similarity to Bendisa, but it is now a unique Macedonian word, being present in a song or two does not exactly qualify it as a Bulgarian word.
              First,I would like to apologise if my above statement have offended anyone interested in this subject or shifted the subject.I did not know/have overlooked 'Bendisa'.I will read earlier posts more carefully before posting.

              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
              Tribunal, whereabouts in Thrace is the song from? You seem to be familiar with Bulgarian literature then, Bugarin si?
              I couldn't specify the region in Thrace.
              No,I am not Bulgarian.

              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
              Tribunal, would the word 'kutre' be used for anything else in Bulgarian?
              As far as I know,when Bulgarians say 'kutre' it usually means 'little finger'.I have no idea how and why this word is used.'Kutre' as 'puppy' is extremely rare from my experience.

              Comment

              • makedonin
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 1668

                Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post

                Bendisa
                Kandisa
                Sardisa
                Udisa


                What do you make of it?
                I can't tell exactly, but it can be archaic form

                For example, I would say: "sredi se", as a statement for "I have accomodated my self" or "I have put everything in order".

                What I am going at is that this word , the "sred" > in order and "i" as ending and the particle "se" can be put in one word:

                sredise...... where the "e" on the end is arhaic "a".

                Or take the word: "sherbetisa" composed of "sherbet">sugar like water and ending "i" and particle "sa"

                which all put in one word would describe the process of some liquid or some substance becoming like sugar-water.

                The particle "se" and archaic "sa" are acctually forms of the modern particle so > wich describes relation of something and means "with" or sometimes "alike" when put in the end. Sometimes the particle "se" also is used for "all" .

                I don't have to mention that the character "T" and character "D" interchange very often in our Language, which would make the word sherbetisa also possible as sherbedisa in some dialects.


                So those words could be of this composition:

                Bend i sa
                Kand i sa
                Sard i sa
                Ud i sa

                where "I" is the feminine or Plural ending, and "sa" is the variaton of particle "so" on the end.

                what do you think SoM ?
                Last edited by makedonin; 03-01-2009, 12:26 PM.
                To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

                Comment

                • El Bre
                  Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 713

                  I have always used kutale for puppy. A variation of kutre, I would imagine.
                  Last edited by El Bre; 03-01-2009, 01:15 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13670

                    Originally posted by makedonin View Post
                    I can't tell exactly, but it can be archaic form

                    For example, I would say: "sredi se", as a statement for "I have accomodated my self" or "I have put everything in order".

                    What I am going at is that this word , the "sred" > in order and "i" as ending and the particle "se" can be put in one word:

                    sredise...... where the "e" on the end is arhaic "a".

                    Or take the word: "sherbetisa" composed of "sherbet">sugar like water and ending "i" and particle "sa"

                    which all put in one word would describe the process of some liquid or some substance becoming like sugar-water.

                    The particle "se" and archaic "sa" are acctually forms of the modern particle so > wich describes relation of something and means "with" or sometimes "alike" when put in the end. Sometimes the particle "se" also is used for "all" .

                    I don't have to mention that the character "T" and character "D" interchange very often in our Language, which would make the word sherbetisa also possible as sherbedisa in some dialects.


                    So those words could be of this composition:

                    Bend i sa
                    Kand i sa
                    Sard i sa
                    Ud i sa

                    where "I" is the feminine or Plural ending, and "sa" is the variaton of particle "so" on the end.

                    what do you think SoM ?
                    Interesting interpretation Makedonin, but I think that the suffix would be more than just the 'sa' as all of the words have an 'i' infront, making it seem as one complete word rather than a combination of two or more. But then again, I could be wrong. I was actually looking at it as an archaic type suffix - "(d)isa" - that has lingered in an older set of words.

                    I am going to continue this discussion in the following thread as it will be more relevant there:

                    I have closed the original thread so that the words feature prominently. Words can be discussed here or any other place on the forum. Hope you don't mind SoM. Akni (Slam, Hit) Barai (Seek) Bendisa (Fancy) Chupe (Girl) Dzunitsa (Rainbow) Glushets/Glufets (Mouse) Kandisa (Convince, Consent) Kalesh (Tanned) Kinisa
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      Originally posted by Tribunal
                      First,I would like to apologise if my above statement have offended anyone interested in this subject or shifted the subject.I did not know/have overlooked 'Bendisa'.I will read earlier posts more carefully before posting.
                      You haven't offended anybody Tribunal, so no need for apologies. What do you make of these words, how do you think they appeared in the Macedonian tongue?
                      I couldn't specify the region in Thrace.
                      Do you have the words to the song you mentioned, Dan'ova Mama?
                      No,I am not Bulgarian.
                      Given that you seem to be aware of this remote and rare song in Thrace, you obviously have some sort of connection to the Balkans. I am Macedonian from both sides, origins in the villages of Bitola. How about you, what is your background?
                      As far as I know,when Bulgarians say 'kutre' it usually means 'little finger'.I have no idea how and why this word is used.'Kutre' as 'puppy' is extremely rare from my experience.
                      What is your experience, have you studied or lived there?
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        In Lithuanian a 'Kunigaikshtis' is a Duke, which looks close to Knez, in Ukranian Knyaz is a Prince, as in some other Slavic languages.

                        How about the word 'Herceg', I have always assumed it is a Magyar word loaned to the Slavic-speakers of Illyria, but the word for Duke in Lithuanian is 'Hercogas' and in Russian it is 'Gertsog'

                        .

                        Are these two words (Knez and Herceg) Magyar loans?

                        Slovak, some assistance mate?
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13670

                          Here are some ancient placenames that were (some no longer) retained in slightly altered forms, in and around Macedonia:

                          SKUPI – SKOPIE

                          DEBORUS – DEBAR

                          SARDIKA – SREDITSA

                          ASTIBO – SHTIP

                          BEROA - BER



                          If anybody knows of other similar example, share them here.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Delodephius
                            Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 736

                            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                            Are these two words (Knez and Herceg) Magyar loans?

                            Slovak, some assistance mate?
                            Knez is an old IE word from which also the English king, German könig, generally from Proto-Germanic kuningaz, Latvian ķēniņš, Persian kian, etc.
                            The word herceg is borrowed from German Herzog meaning "duke". It comes from 'Heer zog' ('army'+'lead').
                            अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
                            उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
                            This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
                            But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              Something about the Acheron in Epirus.



                              The lake called Acherousia and the river still called Acheron with the nearby ruins of the Necromanteion are found near Parga on the mainland opposite Corfu.

                              The Acheron was sometimes referred to as a lake or swamp in Greek literature, as in Aristophanes' The Frogs and Euripides' Alcestis.
                              In Macedonian the word for lake is 'Ezero', obviously still close to the Slavonic and Illyrian variants. In Greek the word for lake is Limni (λίμνη), likely to be unrelated to the following set of words.

                              Acheron
                              Oseriates (Lake, Illyrian)
                              Ozero (Lake, Slavonic)

                              A Centem -> Satem example? Slovak (and others), give us your thoughts.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

                              • Sovius
                                Member
                                • Apr 2009
                                • 241

                                I’ll take a shot at it.

                                The ‘ah-k’ and ‘oh-z’ articulations are mechanically similar, as with ‘oh-n’ and ‘oh’. ‘ah’ is a relaxation of ‘oh’ and the ‘k’ sound is what naturally occurs if the pressure required for producing ‘oh’ is reduced to the level of ‘ah’ and the transition to the deflection of the tongue off the top part of the mouth is sped up and the tongue is allowed to glance off the roof of the mouth more forcefully due to the fact that less energy is needed to produce the initial segment of the combination, creating more surface contact to finish off the transition from ‘ah’ to ‘k’. The pronunciation of ‘oak’ will yield an intermediary position for the ‘k’ articulation that demonstrates its similarity to ‘z’ that’s not evident when simply listening to both sounds or looking at both symbolic combinations.

                                The Esera river that flows from a lake in the Ribagorza (riba gora) region of Aragon, Spain represents a transformation of ‘oh’ into ‘eh’. ‘eh’, of course, is ‘oh’ drawn in a bit, instead of being forced out. Speeding up the production of ozero would produce this transformation. They say the fishing has been quite good there since the early Neolithic Period. The similarity between Aragon and Acheron is either a complete coincidence or something that needs to be researched further.

                                Are there any more toponyms from the specific region where Acheron is found that either reflect or appear to reflect pre-existing linguistic characteristics that can be independently supported in other regions of Europe? Are there other creole transformations that reflect similar paths of change that can be used to substantiate the relevance of these observations?

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