Proto-Slavic in Homer's Works

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  • Sweet Sixteen
    Banned
    • Jan 2014
    • 203

    #16
    Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
    Western Scholars came to a conclusion Odyssey meaning "Journey"
    No, they don't. Where did you see that?

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    • George S.
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 10116

      #17
      ss odi means to go in Macedonian.odissey means journry to go on to a journey.
      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
      GOTSE DELCEV

      Comment

      • Chakalarov
        Junior Member
        • Feb 2014
        • 48

        #18
        I think we are going off topic here. I believe there is a thread specifically devoted to the etymology of Odyssey. I am concerned with the sources for these words that some websites claim are found in Homer's works.

        Comment

        • George S.
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2009
          • 10116

          #19
          chak In general, "Pelasgian" has come to mean more broadly all the indigenous inhabitants of the Aegean Sea region and their cultures before the advent of the Greek language.
          Homer,
          The Pelasgians first appear in the poems of Homer: those who are stated to be Pelasgians in the Iliad are among the allies of Troy. In the section known as the Catalogue of Trojans, they are mentioned between mentions of the Hellespontine cities and the Thracians of south-eastern Europe (i.e., on the Hellespontine border of Thrace). Homer calls their town or district "Larisa"and characterises it as fertile, and its inhabitants as celebrated for their spearsmanship He records their chiefs as Hippothous and Pylaeus, sons of Lethus son of Teutamus, thus giving all of them names that were Greek or so thoroughly Hellenized that any foreign element has been effaced.

          In the Odyssey, Odysseus, affecting to be Cretan himself, instances Pelasgians among the tribes in the ninety cities of Crete, "language mixing with language side by side".
          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
          GOTSE DELCEV

          Comment

          • Chakalarov
            Junior Member
            • Feb 2014
            • 48

            #20
            So, if Homer's works were the result of oral tradition, what exactly is Homeric Greek? Was it even used during the supposed Homer era 750 BC- 650 BC? Furthermore, if the poems were orally passed down, what dialect of Greek are they written in in the sources I mentioned in my first post?

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            • Sweet Sixteen
              Banned
              • Jan 2014
              • 203

              #21
              Originally posted by Chakalarov View Post
              So, if Homer's works were the result of oral tradition, what exactly is Homeric Greek? Was it even used during the supposed Homer era 750 BC- 650 BC?
              LOL, Uh of course it was used. While no one excludes slight changes (in time), this is not like a traditional song that changed and evolved in time and space and nobody knows how it was when it first appeared and who wrote it. These are VERY long and unique masterpieces with the stamp of one genius behind them. They can't be considered a collective work.

              Originally posted by Chakalarov View Post
              Furthermore, if the poems were orally passed down, what dialect of Greek are they written in the sources I mentioned in my first post?
              Homer's language is different than Greek of the classic era in the sense that:

              (a) it is distant in time, being 2-3 or more centuries earlier
              (b) it is not Attic, and is not a specific dialect either. It's mostly Ionic, also a lot Aeolic, plus it is considered to have elements from other dialects. These dialects were spoken in the districts surrounding Attica, in Chalkis and Thebes.

              Comment

              • George S.
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 10116

                #22
                ss you are looking at it from todays world not from the past even though you govt thinks it knows what happened in the past.When one looks at the arrival of the greeks on the greek peninsular it didn't have an alphabet or language.It got that after 800 bc.Prior to that you talk of linear A OR B that is not an alphabet or language.Just remember the alphabet came from the phonecian seafarers.It didn't just pop up it was adopted. by the greeks.How about the art of Hellenising of using ous on names etc putting a greek slant.Doing that doesn't make it greek.Its a greek view by a greek.WE are all entitled to our views lets agree to disagree.Its all to do with the greekness of Macedonia.We know the greek feelings on that don't we??Propaganda works on people's ignorance of not knowing the full truth.You are going to tell us that your govt doesn't lie.Pigs can fly??
                Last edited by George S.; 06-10-2014, 05:40 PM.
                "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                GOTSE DELCEV

                Comment

                • Sweet Sixteen
                  Banned
                  • Jan 2014
                  • 203

                  #23
                  Originally posted by George S. View Post
                  When one looks at the arrival of the greeks on the greek peninsular it didn't have an alphabet or language.It got that after 800 bc.Prior to that you talk of linear A OR B that is not an alphabet or language.Just remember the alphabet came from the phonecian seafarers.It didn't just pop up it was adopted. by the greeks.
                  There are various theories on how and when Greeks were formed (this was a long process in the late 2000s BC or throughout 1000s BC until the first Olympic Games in 776 BC). You can read some of them here:

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15658

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Sweet Sixteen View Post
                    There are various theories on how and when Greeks were formed
                    1830 I believe.
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

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                    • George S.
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 10116

                      #25
                      how do you explain the greekness of the pelasgians(pelasgian in ancient Macedonian means white face).The greeks considered the pelasgians as BARBARIC.So how do you know that they were greek when they didn't speak greek.THEY SPOKE PELASGIAN WHICH WAS NON GREEK.How do you explain that.You say you a realted to the myceneans when their language is different to greek.Prior to the greeeks arrival these people existed and had proto Slavic words.As I said before the illiad was written in the pelasgian language.Then it was translated to greek hence there are no admissions of Slavic words in the illiad.We have today a complete denial unless we have access to the original texts.
                      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                      GOTSE DELCEV

                      Comment

                      • George S.
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 10116

                        #26
                        so Greece became a country in 1832.Do you realize at one point the greeks called themselves romaoi romans.It ciant decide wha it is.Today they call themselves Macedonian.We know they are not.Also as part of the division of 1913 of Macedonia to 4 countries,they all have their particular brand of propaganda.Denial of Macedonian existence.
                        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                        GOTSE DELCEV

                        Comment

                        • Sweet Sixteen
                          Banned
                          • Jan 2014
                          • 203

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                          1830 I believe.
                          Funny, how the best theories are not in Wikipedia.

                          Originally posted by George S. View Post
                          how do you explain the greekness of the pelasgians(pelasgian in ancient Macedonian means white face).The greeks considered the pelasgians as BARBARIC.So how do you know that they were greek when they didn't speak greek.THEY SPOKE PELASGIAN WHICH WAS NON GREEK.How do you explain that.You say you a realted to the myceneans when their language is different to greek.Prior to the greeeks arrival these people existed and had proto Slavic words.As I said before the illiad was written in the pelasgian language.Then it was translated to greek hence there are no admissions of Slavic words in the illiad.We have today a complete denial unless we have access to the original texts.
                          Pelasgian does not mean “white face” in Ancient Macedonian. I can’t find this theory in Wikipedia either. You just pulled that out.



                          Also, Pelasgians didn’t have Proto-Slavic words. Which words do you mean, by the way?

                          Homeric works are… very long poems of great poetic value and substance written in hexameter. They can’t be a translation from a foreign language. Nevertheless, the details, the origins of the myths and many other related aspects are simply lost in the past. They were unknown at the time of classical Greece, so we can’t even hope for a huge archaeological discovery of survived earlier or alternate forms of Homer.

                          Originally posted by George S. View Post
                          so Greece became a country in 1832.Do you realize at one point the greeks called themselves romaoi romans.It ciant decide wha it is.Today they call themselves Macedonian.We know they are not.Also as part of the division of 1913 of Macedonia to 4 countries,they all have their particular brand of propaganda.Denial of Macedonian existence.
                          Roman was a synonym to Greek (due to the Roman Empire). Macedonian isn’t. Greeks call themselves Macedonian when they are ones (like me for instance) or Cretans when they are ones, etc.


                          ==

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                          • George S.
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2009
                            • 10116

                            #28
                            as i said theoriginal homer illiad was supposed to be written in the pelasgian language that's what the greeks don't want people to know they assume that its all greek it isn't .If pelasgian was n't understood they call it barbarism like they called the Macedonians.The greeks didn't speak the same language.But they are happy to appropriate it.That's the 64 dollar question I have known this for the last 50 60 years im fully aware that it was the pelasgian language that homer wrote the illiad as the original language you are just skirting around the issue.Greeks were not pelasgians they were widespread throughout the Balkans ,they were one of the oldest people in the Aegean area.YOU are avoiding the question by giving me its all greek to me attitude.If the illiad was written in the pelasgian language then that EXPLAINS WHY THERE ARE SO MANY WORDS IN MACEDONIAN WORDS SIMILAR and WE CAN understand words of pelasgian with Macedonian words.
                            You are just showing me PREFABRICATED greek translated stuff.When in fact is the otherway around.IF the ORIGINAL texrs of the ILLIAD were in fact GREEK then I don't have a problem WITH THAT BUT they weren't.THIS is stuff the greeks don't want people TO know.SSS I'm not as STUPID as you THINK.I have known THIS not from Or propaganda ,BUt from various things about THE PELASGIANS.Why is it that it means white faces. you don't even know that.What a coincidence the greeks had black faces sounds familiar.When one questions the root of all things one begins to understand that one would hit their head on greek translated stuff .The originals weren't in greek you begin to understand that's one BIG LIE.But when you really look at it its not just one LIE BUT many.
                            Last edited by George S.; 06-11-2014, 05:21 PM.
                            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                            GOTSE DELCEV

                            Comment

                            • Bill77
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2009
                              • 4545

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Sweet Sixteen View Post
                              Funny, how the best theories are not in Wikipedia.

                              ==
                              hahahaha
                              http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                              Comment

                              • George S.
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2009
                                • 10116

                                #30
                                very IMPORTANT POINTwhile the ethnogenesis of the so-called “ancient Greeks” is based on the composition of the participants in the Trojan War such as the Dannans, Achaeans, Argaeds etc., who were mentioned by Homer in his “Iliad” were presumed by modern Hellenists to be all “Greek people” or

                                “Hellenic people”, but they were wrong - because according to history, the

                                “Hellenes” did not colonize the Peloponnesus until 80 years after the

                                Trojan War.
                                "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                                GOTSE DELCEV

                                Comment

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