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Originally posted by Risto the Great
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That's your own theory,Risto,but no linguist subscribes to it.Most of them have already from 19th century recorded the existence of various Greek dialects in what you have described as the North of Greece:
"What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
Polybius, Histories, 9.35 -
I respect the view of these scholars and I accept such terms may have been occassionally used in past centuries not with ethnic meaning as we use them today but rather reflecting a complex of relations and a labour division between various social classes.However this doesn't mean these terms were always devoid of any ethnic meaning at all or that these ethnic groups didn't exist in 19th century.Off course you (and most other Macedonian members here) can believe whatever makes you feel better,that there weren't any Greeks at all in 19th century Macedonia and for first time they appeared in 1912.Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post"What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
Polybius, Histories, 9.35Comment
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Well,if the word PERHAPS is not an indication of uncertainty,what can I say?Originally posted by Orfej View Post
[QUOTE=Orfej;108101Now what we need to do is to take out the diplomas (and all other credentials) to the vast amount of authors (many listed on this thread) who wrote otherwise, that Korais certainly didn't considered the Ancient Macedonians as part of the Greek world. Most of them probably have read all the works of Korais, but they didn't had the genius mind of our friend Agamoi, who renounces all scholars with only reading two pages of Korais work. Imagine what he would do if he had read three or even four pages?
[/QUOTE]
Yeah,I am very cautious with all these modern scholars,because they have also stated for some other 19th century Greek schoilars that they didn't considered ancient Macedonians as Greeks,yet a little research on the work of these very same 19th century scholars has shown otherwise,like the cases of Athanasios Stageirites and Panayotis Kodrikas
And that doesn't exclude them either,otherwise he would have written "they were not Hellenes" but he didn't.That's called uncertaintyOriginally posted by Orfej View Post
This happens in all Balkan nations.Can you show me a "genetically pure" Balkan nation?Originally posted by Orfej View Post
Do you think it was that easy to compose in Ottoman time a history consisting of various volumes?Anyway these are not one-liners:Originally posted by Orfej View Post
1) Konstantinos Vardalachos,1830,"Μαθήματα δια τους παίδας" (Lessons for the children),printed in Odessa.
Vardalachos apparently considered ancient Macedonians as Greeks and not as conquerors of Greece,since the history of Alexander the Great and his campaign is included in the chapters of "Hellenic history" or "History of Hellas",while the history of non-Greek people such as Romans is in separate chapter,"History of the (other) nations".
"History of Hellas
Alexander
He was sixteen years old when he ruled the kingdom,due to the absence of his father,and he showed his competence in the battle of Chaeroneia.At the age of twenty-six he ascended to the throne of Macedonia;Demosthenes,whose prudence was not equal with his zeal,called him a child;but Alexander said "at the walls of Athens I shall show him that I am a man" (Notice how Vardalachos blames Demosthenes for his anti-Macedonian stance.)
"In Corinth he was elected as general of the Hellenes and went to Asia,and after having paid honours to Achilles' grave,in Troy,he tried to cross the Granicus..."
"Hellenic history
Alexander
In the plain of Issus,Dareius was utterly defeated with all his numerous armies,and saved his life by fleeing away.There were captured alive his mother,his wife,two daughters and a baby,his son....After that victory,he conquered Egypt"
"Hellenic history
The Macedonians,longing for their home and having learned that from now on they would meet with the greatest dangers,started to murmur.Thus Alexander was obligated to return and he left to Porus all the places he had conquered in India."
"History of Hellas
Alexander was near to Tigris river,when he decided,in order to award his soldiers,to dismiss the older and the weak ones that were not anymore able to fight,so that they return to their homes.The Macedonians,considering that he dismissed them with the purpose to establish a monarchy in Asia,uprose....Then he appointed Persian bodyguards,which caused great grief to the Macedonians."
"During a symposium all get drunk,and Alexander himself,who started to boast and to ridicule the deeds of his father.The old generals of Philip got indignant.And Clitus,who had saved his life in Granicus,behaved very audaciously.They had a quarrel;and the more Alexander got angry,the more Clitus didn't yeld at all.So Alexander struck him with his lance and killed him,saying "Go to find Philip and Parmenion".
Notice how the history of Romans is examined in different chapter,like above: History of the nations-third Roman period which contains the history of 146 years.
"History of the nations-Roman history"
2)"History of human deeds from the most ancient time tilll nowadays" by Konstantinos Koumas,1830.
"Alexander the Great
He fulfilled the great national task of the Hellenes,the abolishment of the Persian kingdom,which was the common cause of all Hellenic tribes though its implementation was prevented till that time by the conflicts of some of them concerning the preferred leadership."
"...he should rather be considered as an instrument of Divine Providence,whose deeds were identical with the spirit of the whole Hellenic ethnos.That's why Demaratus the Corinthian,with the mentallity of a genuine Hellene said that those Hellenes that had died before they saw Alexander sitting on the Persian throne were deprived of a great pleasure (Plutarch,Alex.37)."
"By that way Alexander inspired eagerness and zeal in his own men while his victory inspired fear and terror in the barbarians.Dasykleion,the seat of the Satrap of Phrygia opened its gates to Parmenion,and Sardeis of Lydia to Alexander himself.The Hellenic cities of Asia received with joy their kinsmen."
3)"Brief history of Hellas",1807 by Vasileios Papaefthymiou from Kostantziko of Macedonia,"to be used in our schools".
Question:"In how many provinces was Hellas divided in ancient time?"
Answer:"In various provinces,which were Epirus,Peloponnesus,Hellas proper,Thessaly and Macedonia".
4)Hermes Logios was a Greek literrary newspaper that was published in Vienna in the first decade of 19th century.
An interesting article of the issue of September 17,1819:
"Mr. J.Fessler,a German scientist,wrote in German and published in Berlin,in 1797,a sequel of the story of Anacharsis' trip in ancient Hellas,which he titled "Alexander the conqueror",containing the exploits of Alexander the Great,especially what happened in Hellas in the time of Alexander and his father Philip...this usefull writting,has been considered as neccesary to our genus,by many educated patriots,and while there is Anacharsis' trip translated,it is also translated and published in our common dialect here,in eight great chapters,with a geographical table and a picture of Alexander in one volume.The title and the contents of the book are enough to inspire the zeal to acquire it in every Hellene and Philhellene.Thus,we appeal to all studious people to contribute to the printing,paying in advance the defined prices in the places mentioned below,where they will get the paperback book from."
Now why should all these educated Greeks hold in such high esteem a book about Alexander and consider it as "neccesary to our genus" if they believed Alexander was not Greek?
5)"Κατάστασις συνοπτική της πόλεως Αθηνών"-Concise history of the city of Athens,by Dionysios Sourmelis,1816
"Many authors mention the numerous Hellenic colonies founded by Alexander the Great in barbarian lands.We,talking in brief,shall here only quote what Plutarch wrote on this subject:Through Alexander Bactria and the Caucasus learned to revere the gods of the Greeks. Alexander established more than seventy cities among savage tribes,and sowed all Asia with Grecian magistracies, and thus overcame its uncivilized and brutish manner of living...Caucasus would not have (without Alexander) any Greek city."
"When the Macedonians conquered Moesia,Illyria,Thrace and the surrounding regions,they taught,as it was natural,the Hellenic language to their inhabitants,forcing them to learn Hellenic for the purpose of communication;Because subject people are always obligated to learn and speak the language of the ruling nation.And since Alexander expanded his state throughout Scythia,Macedonians and the other Hellenes established trade and continuous communication with Scythians;thus Hellenism and its language were spread in the whole of Scythia."
"Εις δε την Άρκτον επεκράτει η Μακεδονική,ήτις ήτον άξεστος Ελληνική".
(To the North was the Macedonian dominant,which was an uncouth Hellenic language.)
6)"Lexicon of ancient mythological,historical and geographical names" by Nikolaos Lorentis,1837.
"Prior to the reign of Philip and Alexander the Great,Macedonia proper was bordering to the north with Paeonia,to the east with Strymon river,to the south with Olympus and to the west with Illyria;but from the time of king Philip it was expanded,including in the east all the Thracian land to Nestos river,in the north Panonia,in the south the Halkidiki peninsula and in the west a big part of Illyria,which was called Macedonian or Hellenic Illyria....."
"From ancient time Macedonia proper was inhabited by two nations,by the Thracians,to which the Paeonians and Pelagonians belong too and by the Dorians,whence the language and the way of life of the Macedonians derive.And in these ancient times the Macedonians appear as one of the most powerfull and warlike nations of northern Greece,being in a constant state of war with the Illyrians and the Thracians."
In the article about the name "Hellas",it reads that while in the time of Homer the name Hellas was only applied to a small region around Phthia in central Greece,the country that was defined as Hellas was gradually extended including all the regions that were inhabited by Greeks:
"The country that was defined by the general name of Hellas was divided in four great parts,in northern Hellas,which included Macedonia,Thessaly and Epirus;in central Hellas,which was also called Hellas proper,including Megaris,Attica,Boetia,Phocis,Locris,Aetolia and Acarnania;in southern Hellas,including all Peloponnesus and the islands-especially Great Hellas (Magna Graecia) was called the southern part of Italy and the whole island of Sicily,where several Hellenic colonies and cities were to be found."
7)"Consice archaeology of the Hellenes" by Georgios Konstantinou Sakellarios from Kozani.1796
"On the days,months and years of the Hellenes"
'The Macedonians had likewise 12 months with 30 and 29 days,which were called Dios,Apellaios,Audonaios,Peritios,Dystros,Xandikos ,Artemisios,Daisios,Panemos,Loos,Gorpiaios and Hyberberetaios"
And because I like one liners too,here is a little bit of them too:
The following abstract,from "Anecdota Graeca e cod. manuscriptis bibliothekae regiae Parisiensis",published in 1839 by John A. Cramer,was originally included in the work af an unknown chronicler under the title "Εκλογή ιστοριών από τε Μωϋσέως βίβλου και των έξω ιστοριογραφησάντων επισήμων ανδρών και της Αγίας Γραφής,τομώς διερχομένη μέχρι της Αναστασίου βασιλείας" (Selection of histories from Moses's book and other illustrious men that wrote history and from the Holy Script,divided in chapters till the reign of Anastasios".Though the anonymous author states his history covers the period till the reign of emperor Anastasios,the last emperor mentioned in his list is Leo the Armenian,in page 373 ,which means he definitely did not live in 6th but at least not earlier than late 8th-early 9th century.
The English publisher however wrote in the Latin introduction that probably the anonumous author composed his chronicon out of various similar histories of various other Byzantine authors such as George Kedrenos,John of Antioch and the Paschal Chronicle (Hoc chronico mihi videtar esse confectum ex variis scriptoribus,Cedreno,Joanne Antiocheno,Chronico Paschali).Thus the author might have lived in late 11th-early 12 th century.
"When Alexander captured the city of Samarea he settled Macedonians there.As first year of the reign of Hellenes is counted by the Hellenes the year of Alexander,and by Macedonians themselves too."
"Alexander abolished Persian rule in the seventh year of his reign,that is the first year of the reign of Hellenes.For we have learned from the book of Maccabees that Hellenes and Macedonians are the same".
Default
The Byzantine scholar Demetrios Kydones,born in Thessaloniki wrote in 1345 to emperor Ioannes VI Kantakouzinos:
"For the very name of Macedonia inspires terror in the hearts of the barbarians who remember Alexander and the handful of Macedonians who swept through Asia with him. Show them, O King, that you (and your army) are Macedonians and that only time distinguishes you from King Alexander".
"What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
Polybius, Histories, 9.35Comment
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Really now??? We don't need blind faith to know what the hard facts tell us:Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View Post
The parliaments view on not being able to change the "ethnic character" of Macedonia defeats there lies of a "4000 years of 'greek' history in Macedonia". If half the population of occupied Macedonia was refugee then what of the other half? How much of it was made up of ethnic greeks? What made one an ethnic greek?
Let's go a little bit deeper though because it gets more interesting to see what migrations took place and when - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=2838
Social cleavages and national "awakening" in Ottoman Macedonia, by Basil Gounaris, East European Quarterly, Winter 1995 v29 n4 p409(18).In many cases communal disputes seem to be related to the different geographical origin of the local clans. Though no proper research has been done, it is a fact that between 1750 and 1850 successive waves of refugees settled in Macedonia. They were Christians, Albanian-, Greek- or Vlach-speaking, evicted from Epirus due to the continuous disturbances caused initially by the Albanian tribes and later on by the Ali pasha irregulars. In the course of a century a considerable number of new villages were established throughout Macedonia, while in other cases refugee families settled in Slav-speaking communities.Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!Comment
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It is a theory that comes from self described Greek people in the regions of northern Greece. If you want to include a few villages in Ser & the coastal remnants of traders in ancient times so be it. Even the former turkish nationals have largely lost their languages and now only speak modern Greek. But I was talking about natural living languages not the modern Greek language of 1976.Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View PostRisto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.comComment
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There is no Macedonian 'dialect' of Greek, neither in ancient or modern times. The mere suggestion is absurd. If there are any particulars of the Greek spoken in Macedonia, it is because the Macedonian language has influenced the way people speak Greek in those parts.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.Comment
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Fair enough, but then you should also correctly use the opposite of 'pro-Greek' authors, which is 'pro-Macedonian' authors, for the likes of Green, Borza, etc.Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View PostIn the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.Comment
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A Bulgarian hellene. Say it ain't so
Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!Comment
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This is one of my favorite topics. Here's some more info on 18th and 19th century "Hellenes" calling the ancient Macedonians all sorts of names. This is translated from grk.
About the ancient Macedonians
Dimitrios Lithoxou
In Greek national history, specifically the chapter on ancient Macedonia, founded the basic position of the Greek nation in controversy in recent years for use of the name Macedonia and its derivatives. This position is that the ancient Greeks were a nation, and the ancient Macedonians constitute a part of this nation. Extension of purely ideological nature of this position is the political " argument "that modern Greeks as followers of the Greek nation, are the legitimate heirs of the country inhabited by the Ancient Macedonians and thus related names, symbols, etc.
To the extent that the Greek government as a member now wider political formations, has the right to declare war decision, the battle for Macedonia is limited to a diplomatic dispute over the symbolic (name). And as in modern diplomacy representatives of other states take seriously on this, only the right of self-determination of peoples and not the objections rooted in rival national myths, a Greek defeat seems almost inevitable.
A Greek defeat at this late stage of the Macedonian issue, it is likely to mark the Greek nation to launch an internal collective existential search Referring now to the very essence of national myth and the political-state considerations that led over time such type of ideological formation.
Hopefully everything to help in such a way as well as a condition for overcoming the nation-state deconstruction of ideology and the output of the trapped members of this community, a search direction and reflection around the foundation of a policy proposal metaethnikis multicultural European democracy.
With this logic, we attempt here to speak in the debate on the Hellenism of the Ancient Macedonians. Without getting in the literary controversy testimonies and interpretations of ancient sources employed in the past to European scholars, as the current context this could easily be misunderstood or deliberately misrepresented both sides, we will restrict the emergence of a significant event not is well known. The fact that the Greek nation in the early decades of the establishment, until about the middle of the 19th century, regarded the Macedonians as barbarians and enemies of ancient Greece. Kontologis the former national Greeks believed in things today diakyrittoun the " unspeakable "neighbors and dismisses the worldwide Hellenism with abhorrence.
So let's get in on the source texts that underpin our claim.
We start with the second volume of his History of Greece , of Goldsmith (Oliver Goldsmith), a project which he translated and edited by Dimitrios Alexandridis. In this book, printed in Vienna in 1806, the Greek era readers could read that " the Macedonians were considered unworthy of the society of allied body of Greeks and foreigners and AS imivarvaroi who ekafchonto true Greek origin, differed not when these tech manners and politeian . " Learn that " always the kings of Macedonia were persecuted as foreigners "from the common things of the Greeks, and that" the Greeks, who were all under that name, enomizon dangerous and pernicious in themselves the entrance of foreigners in Greece, blot enomizonto and Macedonians "[Alexandridis 1806, pp. 1 and 16].
The next year was printed in the printing of Nicholas sweet in Venice a Compendium of History of Greece , which was written by GD Ellinomouseiou of Livorno and was financed by the Brotherhood of Orthodox Greeks in the same city. In the second volume of this work one could read that Macedonia " enomisthi Eton and the brutal truth "and that a civil war between the Greeks" brought Greece to fall into the hands of Philip , "that at the beginning of the war" stood neutral , allowed the Greeks to weaken each other . " To learn that even in the battle of Chaeronea what was considered " slavery or freedom of Greece "and unfortunately" was confirmed for the first time . " How the defeated there by the Macedonians, wrote the following epigram in honor of their dead: " Utu by enemy weapons they received worthily, not apsychisan life for his country, but proutimisan death bravely, though the Greeks ginosin rascally slaves "[DG 1807 , p 76, 84, 108, 111].
Note that the same project with the same title, will be reissued in the printing of Nicholas sweet in Venice in 1815. In reissue but as the author appears not GD but the monk Gregory Paliouritis. The above excerpts about the Macedonians repeated here unchanged [Paliouritis 1815, p 75, 83, 107, 109].
In 1808 in Istanbul issued a chronological compendium of General History, translated from the French and reworked by Lambros Antoniades, with the permission and encouragement of the patriarch of Constantinople. And here the Greeks learned that the ancient Macedonians were enemies of the Greeks: " After parakmin the Spartans, Greeks midamos hush, eproxenisan yourselves by your own bane of civil war, and for their ongoing their divisions. But of these, Philip, Macedonian king greatly benefited and enedynamothi by the sagacity rather than bravery in order to katintise main genera almost all of Greece, and only their fellow Athenians under empsychothentes of Demosthenes, antestisan All of dynamesi to mellousan majesty of the Macedonians, except uselessly "[Antoniades 1808, 26-27].
The same year released in a historic Venice game written for sophisticates " descendants of the Greeks "who were interested in" the study of the history of their ancestors . " The Editor of the publication was A. B. In related records, players read that Philip is " lifted up because Macedonia against Greece , "that Philip on the occasion of the so-called holy war" with isevi in Greece and conquered it has completed the "and that after the death of Philip," the Greeks and other nations subservient exoplisthisan against his son "[AB 1808, p 6, 171, 183].
Daniel Philippides translates and comments in a language purist would call simple, work Justini Historiarum philippicarum ex Trogo Pompeio , which was printed in Leipzig in 1817. The Greeks filistores read here that dichostasia and civil wars in Greece allowed " to evgi onto the grimy darkness and name of the Macedonians "and succeed Philip" to Vali onto the neck of Greece and Asia, as a yoke of slavery, the kingdom of Macedon . " It thus be " vile and wretched spectacle, Greece broth and then even by thy forces and worth, was the first of the earth, of course kings and nations winning lady always many other cities, epereidetai in foreign bases, hoping apefchomeni or war.'s ekdikitai of the world to take their hope in thy dynamin a stranger . " There are chapters in the book entitled " Symforais of Greece under Macedonian Philip "and" kataxeschizei Philip of Greece . " The Philippides commenting on the personality of Philip writes: " From this one may infer what was Philip, and the argument. course in this definition if not ixefro may leave no evil aggressively. Whom It can be contrasted with Philip the Emperor Severus of romance. difference If anything, century circumstances are the cause. Both epitideiotatoi rulers, but mochthirotatoi people. Worthy both revulsion and hatred " [Philippides 1817, p 131, 144, 151, 152].
In another General History printed in 1820 in Iasi and author is Nicholas Polyainos (NP), the then " Panhellenion "could learn that in antiquity:" The Greeks arrived in megan degree of strength and glory and finally declined and almost disappeared. According to this embodiment and the previously insignificant and despised Macedonians by froniseos and strategic assets of Philip and Alexander arrived at such a degree of greatness and power, in which no other nation ever efthasen, to so little space weather "[Polyainos 1820, p e, f]
In 1830 in Vienna released the second volume of the work Histories of Human Acts, Konstantinos Koumas. The scholar considered by the Greek nation as a " teacher of the Nation " , he wrote, referring to the relationship of Greeks and Macedonians, that the kings of Macedon "tried to conclude with the Hellenic spirit "but" try these centuries were intended only paideian of rulers not applicable, its poor citizens, which ekatafronoun Greeks as barbarians "[Koumas 1830, p 140].
Also printed in 1830 in Paris, the third volume of the naughty Adamantios Korai, perhaps the most important Greek intellectuals of the time. The then putative wise elder Greeks are unambiguous, speaking Macedonians:
" The wily despot of Macedonia (Philip) paretirisen that Greeks, scrap manners, were no longer good to fylatosi of freedom, hence he made what doest thou usually all doriktitores despotai. increased the wear up to katastisin incurable , increases discord Tash cities corruptor abundantly the demagogues and traitors of Greece, to the municipal erethizosin without interruption against oligarchs, and this again by those, till the disastrous ekerdise in the Greek victory of Chaeronea. This year died in Athens Tash Do not suffer the humility of his country, and the rhetorician Isocrates, one of the few true filopatridas those whose length Tash advisor if the Athenians did not want pesein, nor sygkatasyrein met throughout Greece, in the fall of. But don 'the doriktitores left aptotoi all. Exenantias, invisible to the trial and stirs them while swaying the peace and peacefulness of others, to be both eleeinoteron pesosi corpse as Be 'from local higher, be fulfilled the prophecy he shall be holy "No dicha loss and damage esti bad. "After two years of Chaeronea battle edolofonithi, to those of the daughter of the marriage, the treacherous Philip of Greek freedom. happier even to the incomparably despite megalourgoteron doriktitora of our time, who dies before esterithi freedom from people not much longer koinin respecting the liberty of the people. course after the death of Philip century HELLENIC cities epethymisan anaktisosi to the prior aftonomian, katafronountes indeed the son and successor Alexander " [Korais 1830, 138, 139].
A year later printed in Nafplion, then capital of the newly established Greek state, a compendium of old stories . This is a book intended for preliminary schools, translated from French and supplemented by Law Silivergo. Students could read there that " s though the kings of Macedonia diischyrizonto that ekatagonto of Heracles, the Greeks did not etheorousan compatriots, but as barbarians and the Persians "[Silivergos 1831, 67].
Printed in 1836 in Izmir , the History of Ancient Greece As for the use of pupils in Greek schools there. The chapter on ancient Macedonia, the reader learns that: " the kingdom of Macedonia had been yparxein for four hundred years, but never speak fimin great grip. esygkrotei not part of the Greek confederacy, don? estellen Representative at the House of Amphictyon. Residents ekafchonto that as a colony originating from Ellinikin but had oligin sygkoinonian with the Greeks, and were regarded by them as barbarians "[compiler 1836, p 98-99].
The aforementioned textbook will hold successive versions. In 1844 will be printed again in Smyrna, but in another print, the fourth edition, where repeated exactly the same for Macedonia on those of the first edition [compiler 1844, p 88].
Published in 1839 in Athens and carefully translated by George Gennadios high school, the General History of Kammererou ( Cammerer ), intended for school use. Printed in the printing of Andrew Koromila, which seems to have taken the time and for years most school publications. Among other things the students learned in history that Philip was " cunning enemy "of Greece at Chaeronea and that, not only" unsuccessful Greeks ", but this defeat was" grave became the freedom and autonomy of the Greeks "[Gennadius 1839, in . 34 and 38].
In 1841, as a young Demosthenes, president of the Archaeological Society Iakovakis Rizos Waterman, in a speech which speaks during an event held in the capital of the Greek state, and even on the Acropolis, says that Philip was not only defeated Greece at Chaeronea, but " epraxen another victory olethrioteron, produced by Alexander "[Dimaras 1986, 70-71].
The year 1845, a " new best known for his historical studies of "the later Greek national historian Constantine Paparrigopoulos, translates and edits the General History of the French historian Levi, issued for use in schools Andrew Koromilas. In this book history students taught that the ancient Macedonians were enemies of the Greeks. The relevant chapter on ancient Macedonia, learned that " rested after Philip Tash civil unrest in Macedonia and this synesteile external enemies, the evoulefthi ypodoulosin of Greece "that" katepolemise Illyrians, Thracians and Scythians, and epanilthen afthis round 'poorly at the lord idean, Greece to ypodoulosin "and that at Chaeronea, on August 3, 338," enikithisan and Greeks lost their liberty "[Paparrigopoulos 1845, p 130-131].
In 1848, Professor Nicholas Saripolou, in a speech delivered on October 21, 1848, at the start of the course of ancient Greek political systems, categorically emphasized that " Philip, benefit of these civil strife, daredevil King, Greece katestisen whole activity pawn himself , and in the plain of Chaeronea exepsychisen freedom of Greece s ". After the battle at Chaeronea, " veil great slavery overshadows Greece, long-time destruction, barren season! Macedonians succeeded by the Romans, the Romans, the Barbarians of the North, this is not the bloodthirsty Caspian neighbors "[Saripolou 1848, pp. 11 24].
Constantine Paparrigopoulos back in 1849 in the Macedonian issue, without being sure of their origin. A new school history book writing and printed this year states: " The Macedonians, if ypagontai Implicit in the Thrakikin, to the Greek, or in the Illyrikin tribe, because each of these opinions is that devotees. The fourth (view) and pithanotati is that Illyrian nation were not mixed with Greeks . " In another section it adds: " The Macedonian era may reasonably be distinguished from the Greek, because the Macedonian nation exeplirosen, in his General History, instructed another despite Ellinikon "[Paparrigopoulos 1849, p 96 and 193].
From reading the above, it becomes obvious that the Greek community of the nation, during the first decades of the set-up was okay ancient Macedonians in the national history as enemies-conquerors of the ancient Greeks.
In the mid 19th century, the political project of Greek nationalism that became known as Great Idea , and was first formulated in 1844 by the Vlach leading political era (and prime minister of Greece) John Koletti, imposed ideological preparation of population country for future attack of the Greek state in the Balkan hinterland. The expansive plan required inter alia, the creation of Greek historical inheritance of titles on land north of the Greek border, much of which consisted of the Ottoman Macedonian provinces.
The title of the national history was not given chance to Constantine Paparrigopoulos. He is the lead author of the history of the Greek nation. Several other before or alongside this contributed to the effort, but the final work brings its own signature. The national historian records past events. Of these, more choice, more remakes and more silent, according to policy needs and operating effectiveness of its work. Until his creation, the Greek national history, its final functional form, a chapter can be rewritten to change form, and even turned into its opposite. The Big Idea imposed on national history to advance to the " Hellenization "of the ancient Macedonians, and the presentation of enemies as compatriots.
Let us follow the thought, as recorded in the History of the Greek Nation in 1853:
" The Macedonians, although not referring to the ancient times of Greek history, but were Greeks. especially those kings say themselves descendants of Hercules, and the other Greeks regarded as homogeneous, because edechonto them at the Olympics in their which neither admitted egineto do battle if he was not Greek. Macedonia was then first one of many who Tas small Greek kingdom Tash which we beheld in the ancient times of Greece. then the kingdom was abolished in the not place her, as in the greater part of Greece, but was kept. Towards the Macedonians, however, because resided in the northern acrania of Greece, and had been around for many barbarous nations, which were in incessant wars, not to eimporesan prokopsosin with other Greeks in the letters and in the arts. And by Philip still had TINA resemblance with the ancient Greeks, as Homer describes them on the Trojan War "[Paparrigopoulos 1853, p 57].
As masters of the structuring Paparrigopoulos so well Macedonian mosaic, that did not leave room for substantial corrections and odd jobs to heirs student, apart from an inevitable return of text in modern language and later at will add some footnotes.
Bibliography
AB 1808: Historical gambling containing epitomin of Greek history preceded protheoria general of ancient history , from the typography George Vendotou, in Vienna, Austria, 1808.
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* Published for the first time in my old website on October 20, 2008. M etafrastike in Macedonia and published in the newspaper Новамакедонија ( 4 December 2008):
Г рчкото присвојување на Македонија Античка е на еднакво објавување војна
А втор: Димитрис Литоксоу
Главната теза на грчката нација, во конфликтот од последните години околу употребата на името Македонија и неговите заменки, се засновува на грчката национална историја, поточно на поглавјето за Античка Македонија. Во таа теза се тврди дека античките Грци биле нација, а античките Македонци биле составен дел од таа нација. Проекција на ова чисто идеолошка теза претставува политичкиот аргумент дека современите Грци, како продолжувачи на грчката нација, се законските наследници на земјата каде што живееле античките Македонци, што значи и на нивните имиња, симболи итн. Бидејки Грција, како членка веке на пошироки политички структури , нема право на објавување војна, борбата за Македонија се ограничува на дипломатски натпревар околу симболиката (името). И затоа што во современата дипломатија претставниците на другите држави сериозно го сфакаат, во конкретниот случај, само правото на на самоидентификување народите, а не на приговорите засновани спротивставените национални митови, грчкиот пораз се чини неизбежен. Грчкиот пораз, во оваа подоцнежна фаза на македонското прашање , најверојатно ке го означи започнувањето на на едно колективно преиспитување идентитетот, во врска веке со самата суштина на националниот мит и на политичко - државните интереси што низ времето доведоа до овој вид идеолошко составување. Секогаш се надеваме дека ке го потпомогнеме овој процес, бидејки сметаме дека предуслов надминување на за националната држава разградувањето е и на нејзината идеологија излегувањето на заглавените членови од таа заедница, во насока и на пребарување преиспитување на за предлогот втемелување и на една постнационална мултикултурна европска демократија. Водејки се од ова логика, се обидуваме овде да се приклучиме во дијалогот околу елинизмот на античките Македонци. Без да се вмешаме во филолошкиот конфликт околу сведоштвата и на толкувањата античките извори со кои во минатото се занимаваа европските интелектуалци, бидејки тоа лесно би можело да се злоупотреби или намерно да се искриви од двете страни, ке се задржиме на еден важен факт што не е многу познат. Фактот дека грчката нација во првите децении на нејзиното формирање, до средината на nineteen век, ги сметаше Македонците како варвари и на непријатели античката Грција. Накратко, тогашните Грци по националност верувале во тоа што денес го зборуваат нашите безимени соседи. Да ги видиме текстовите - извори што го поткрепуваат нашето тврдење. Започнуваме со вториот том Историјата на на на Грција Оливер Голдсмит, чие дело го преведе и уреди Димитриос Александридис. Во ова книга, која беше испечатена во 1806 година во Виена, тогашните грчки читатели можеле да прочитаат дека "Македонците се сметале за недостојни за заедницата на сојузот на Елините, и како припадници на туѓ народ и полуварвари се фалеле дека се Грци по род, но се разликувале од нив во обичаите и политичкото уредување ". Македонија била варварска Исто така можеле да научат дека "секогаш кралевите на Македонија биле истерани како припадници на туг народ" од заедничките работи на Елините, и дека "Елините, тие што се опфакале под тоа име, сметале дека би било опасно уништувачко и на за нив доагањето тугинци во Елада, а и така ги именувале Македонците ". (Александридис та-one thousand eight hundred and six. ст. и sixteen on the 1st) Наредната година беше испечатен во печатницата на Николаос Гликис во Венеција "Преглед на историјата на Грција ", кој го напиша Г. Д. од грчкиот музеј на Либорно, а го финансираше Братството на православните Грци од истиот град. Во вториот том на таа книга можеше да се прочита дека Македонија "се нарекувала и била навистина варварска" и дека граѓанската војна помеѓу Елините "како цел имаше да падне Елада во рацете на Филип", кој на почетокот на војната "не се вмешал оставајќи ги Елините да ослабнат помеѓу нив ". Исто така можеле да научат дека во битката кај Херонеја пресудна била" слободата или ропството на Елада "и за жал," се потврди второто ". Елините поразени од Македонците таму го напишале следниот натпис во чест на нивните жртви "Овие оружјето го зедоа вредно, животот не го жалеа за татковината, смело смртта ја претпочитаа, за да не станат Елините бедни робови". (Г. Д. Ст 1 807. 76, eighty-four, one hundred and eight, one hundred eleven). Да забележиме дека токму истото дело, под истиот наслов, се издаде повторно од печатницата на Николаос Гликис во Венеција во година 1 815, но во второто издание како автор не се појавува Г. Д., Туку јеромонахот Григориос Палјуритис. Податоците за Македонците се повторуваат идентично како и во претходното издание. (Палјуритис ст 1 815. 75, 83, one hundred and seven, one hundred and nine). Во 1,808 година се издаде во Константинопол "Хронолошкиот преглед на општата историја", преведен од француски јазик и преработен од Ламброс Антонијадис, со дозвола и поттик од константинополскиот Патријарх. И овде Грците учеле дека античките Македонци биле непријатели на Елините. "По распаѓањето на лакедемонијците, Елините воопшто не се смириле, предизвикале себеси исто уништување преку граѓанските војни и преку постојаниот раздор помеѓу нив. Од тоа Филип, кралот на Македонците, имаше голема корист и се засили, повеќе заради неговата пресметливост, а не заради неговата храброст, и стана господар речиси на целата Елада. Само Атињаните, за разлика од другите Елини, охрабрени од Демостен, се спротивставија со сета сила на идното величество на Македонците, но попусто ". (Антонијадис 1808, 26 - 27) Маките на Елада под Филип Истата година во Венеција се издаде една игра со историска содржина што беше наменета за "образованите потомци на греките" што покажуваа интерес за "проучувањето на на историјата предците". Уредувањето на изданието го направи А. В .. Во картите играчите читаа дека Филиповата "Македонија се дигна против Елада", дека Филип под изговор дека ќе и стави крај на таканаречената света војна "влезе во Елада и ја завладеа", а по смртта на Филип "Елините и останатите поробени народи се вооружија против неговиот син ". (А. В. ст 1808. six, one hundred seventy-one, one hundred eighty-three) Даниил Филипидис го преведе и го прокоментира делото "Јустини Хисториарум Пхилиппицарум ец Трого Помпеио", кое беше испечатено во Лајпциг во година one thousand eight hundred and seventeen. Грчките љубители на историјата читаа во него дека раздорот и граганските војни во Елада дозволија "да излезе на виделина нечистото и мрачното име на Македонците" и да успее Филип да "ги претвори Елада и на Азија робови, под македонското царство". Како резултат на тоа беше "ужасна и немилосна глетка, Елада, која дури и тогаш со нејзината сила и вредност беше прва на земјата, поразител на царевите и на народите и сè уште владетел на доста градови, да се потпира на туѓи основи, посакувајќи или плашејќи се од војна . Вселенските одмаздувачи да се надеваат на силата на еден туѓинец ". Во книгата постојат поглавија под наслов" Маките на Елада под Македонецот Филип "и" Филип ја распарчува Елада ". Филипидис коментирајќи ја личноста на Филип напишал" Од сето тоа можеш да заклучиш кој бил Филип и да го процениш. Секако во таа процена не знам дали можеш да пропуштиш некоја лоша придавка. Би можеле да го споредиме Филип со Севир, цар на Романите. Ако се разликуваа во нешто, тоа е заради околностите. И двајцата биле вешти хегемони, но злобни луѓе. Заслужуваат одбивност и омраза ". (1817 Филипидис ст. 131, one hundred and forty-four, 151, 152) Во една друга Општа историја, која беше испечатена во Иаси (Романија) во 1,820 година, а нејзин автор беше Николаос Полиенос (Н. П), тогашните Грци можеа да научат дека во античкото време "Елините го достигнале највисокиот степен моќ и на слава, и на крај се распаднале и речиси исчезнале. На тој начин претходно безначајните и омаловажувани Македонци, преку разумот и стратегиските доблести на Филип и на неговиот син Александар, достигнале таков степен величественост и на моќ каков што никогаш не достигнал друг народ, за толку кус временски период ". (Полиенос ст. 5, 6) 1.83 thousand Во година се издаде во Виена вториот том на делото "Историја на човековите дела", на Константинос Кумас. Овој интелектуалец, кој се смета од грчката нација за "учител на грчкиот род", напиша во врска со односите на Елините и Македонците дека македонските кралеви "се обидувале да се вклучат во елинскиот дух", но "тие обиди се однесувале на образованието на владетелите , а не на посиромашните поданици, кои Елините понижно ги нарекувале варвари ". (1830 Кумас ст. one hundred and forty) Никој не може да биде лош без загуба
Исто така во 1830 година беше испечатен во Париз третиот том од Атакта на Адамантиос Кораис, на веројатно нај значајниот грчки интелектуалец во тоа време. Тогашниот грчки мудрец не остава простор за погрешно толкување кога зборува за Македонците: "Итриот на Македонија владетел (Филип) забележал дека Елините, морално ослабени, не биле веќе способни да ја сочуваат слободата и го направил тоа што обично го прават поробувачките владетели. Го потпомогнал распадот, додека да биде неизлечлив, зголемувајќи го раздорот помеѓу градовите, подмитувајќи ги богато демагозите и предавниците на Елада, за да ги раздразнуваат постојано демотиците против олигарсите и обратно, сè додека не дојде до катастрофалната за Елините победа во Херонеја. Истата година во Атина умрел реторот Исократ, еден од малкутемина вистински патриоти, не можејки да го поднесе омаловажувањето на неговата татковина. Ако Атињаните ги слушаа неговите совети, немаше да паднат ниту пак да ја повлечат целата Елада во своето пагање.
Но ниту поробувачите не се неопипливи. Напротив, невидлива судбина ги очекува и нив, додека се мешаат во мирот и спокојството на другите, дури да паднат како труп толку беден, од место што по високо, за да се исполни светото пророштво: "Никој не може да биде лош без да има загуба и штета ". Две години по херонејската битка, на самата свадба на неговата ќерка, бил убиен Филип - уништувачот на елинската слобода. Немал среќа ниту во тоа, и ако бил најголемиот поробувач, и пред да умре ја изгубил слободата од луѓе што не ја почитувале општата човекова слобода. Нормално, по смртта на Филип елинските градови посакале да ја вратат автономијата што ја имале порано, игнорирајки го неговиот син и наследник Александар ". (1.83 thousand Кораис ст. One hundred and thirty-eight, one hundred and thirty-nine) Една година подоцна беше испечатен во Нафплион, тогашниот главен град на новосоздадената грчка држава, "Преглед на старата историја". Се работи за една книга предвидена за воведните училишта, преведена од француски и дополнета од Н. Силивергос. Учениците можеа да прочитаат во неа дека "иако македонските кралеви тврделе дека се потомци на Хераклес, Елините не за ги сметале истонародници, туку ги сметале за варвари, исто како и Персијците". (1831 Силивергос ст. Sixty-seven) 1 836 Во година во Измир беше испечатена "Историјата на Античка Елада" предвидена за учениците на тамошните грчки училишта. Во почетокот на поглавието за Античка Македонија читателот учеше дека "Македонското царство постоело претходно околу четиристотини години, но без да биде многу прочуено. Не било дел од елинскиот сојуз, ниту пак праќало претставник во Амфиктионското Собрание. Неговите жители се фалеле дека потекнувале од елинска колонија, но немале многу контакти со Елините, кои тие ги сметале за варвари ". (Еранистис ст 1 836. 98 - 99) Горенаведениот учебник беше издаден уште неколку пати. Во one thousand eight hundred and forty-four беше испечатено во Измир, но во друга печатница, четвртото издание каде што се повторуваат истите податоци Македонија како и за во првото издание. (1844 Еранистис ст. 88) Македонците им биле непријатели на Елините
Во 1,839 година беше издадена во Атина "Општата историја на Камерер", која беше наменета за училишна употреба, преведена и уредена од гимназискиот директор Георгиос Генадиос. Беше испечатена во печатницата на Андреас Коромилас, кој, како што изгледа, ги имаше преземено од тогаш и во наредниот период повеќето од училишните изданија. Помеѓу другото учениците во таа Историја учеле дека Филип бил "итар непријател" на Елада и дека во Херонеја, не само што "се поразиле Елините", туку тој пораз "станал гробница на слободата и на автономијата на Елините". (Генадиос 1839 ст. thirty-four thirty-eight и) Во one thousand eight hundred and forty-one година, како нов Демостен, претседателот на Археолошкото друштво Јаковакис Ризос Нерулос, во еден говор што го одржа на една манифестација во главниот град на грчката држава, и на тоа самиот Акропол, тврдеше дека Филип не само што ја победил Елада кај Херонеја, туку "направил нешто многу пострашно, го донел на свет Александар". (Димарас 1,986 ст. 70 - 71) one thousand eight hundred and forty-five Во година, еден млад човек познат по неговите историски проучувања, подоцнежниот национален историчар на Грција Константинос Папаригопулос, ја преведе и ја уреди "Општата историја" на францускиот историчар Леви, која ја издаде како учебник Андреас Коромилас. Од оваа книга по историја учениците учеа дека Македонците им биле непријатели на Елините. Во поглавието за античка Македонија учеа дека "откако Филип ги сопрел граѓанските војни во Македонија и ги неутрализирал надворешните непријатели, наумил да ја пороби Елада", дека "ги поразил Илирите, Тракијците и Скитите, а веднаш потоа се свртил кон својата главна замисла, поробувањето на Елада "и дека кај Херонеја на 3 август 338 година п.н.е" Елините биле поразени и ја изгубиле слободата ". (1 845 Папаригопулос ст. 130 - 131) one thousand eight hundred forty-eight Во година професорот Николаос Сариполос, во еден говор што го одржал октомври на 21 1848, по повод започнувањето на часовите по античките елински политички системи, нагласил категорично дека "Филип ја искористил ова граганска војна, како храбар крал, целата Елада ја ставил под негова контрола, а на херонејското поле умре елинската слобода ". По херонејската битка" црно ропство ја покрило Елада, период на долго уништување, период јалов! По Македонците дошле Римјаните, по Римјаните варварите од Северот, а по нив крволочните касписки жители ". (Сариполос 1,848 ст. И 24 on the 11th) Забележани, обработени и премолчни факти Константинос Папаригопулос во one thousand eight hundred forty-nine година повторно се врати на за прашањето Македонците без да биде сигурен за нивното потекло.Во еден нов учебник по историја што го напиша и беше испечатен истата година забележа : "Не е познато дали Македонците биле од тракиското, елинското или илириското племе, бидејќи секое од овие мислења ги има своите поддржувачи. Четвртото мислење, и нај веројатното, е дека биле Илиријци измешани со Елини ". Во едно друго поглавие дополни дека" Македонскиот период може лесно да се разликува од Елинскиот, бидејќи македонскиот народ исполнил, во Општата историја, различна задача од таа на Елините ". (One thousand eight hundred forty-nine Папаригопулос ст. И 96 193) Од погоренаведеното станува јасно дека заедницата на грчката нација, во првите децении на нејзиното формирање, во нејзината национална историја, ги сметаше Македонците како непријатели - поробувачи на античките Елини. Во средината на 19 век, политичкиот план на грчкиот национализам кој е познат под името Мегали идеа (Голема идеја), и кој беше спомнат за прв пат во 1844 година од врвниот политичар во тоа бреме Иоанис Колетис (премиер на Грција) и кој беше по потекло Влав, го наложи идеолошкото подготвување на населението на земјата, за идната експанзија на грчката држава во балканската внатрешност. Експанзионистичкиот план имаше потреба, помегу другото, од создавање на грчко историско наследство во просторот северно од грчките граници, од кој голем дел претставуваше областа на Македонија отоманска. Титулата на национален историчар Константинос Папаригопулос не ја доби случајно. Тој е основниот автор на "Историјата на грчката нација". И други автори пред или паралелно со него го потпомогнаа процесот, но крајниот резултат го носи неговиот потпис. Националниот историчар не ги регистрира историските факти од минатото. Од фактите некои ги забележува, некои ги преобработува, а други ги премолчува, во согласност со потребите на политичкото функционирање и ефикасност на неговото дело. До крајниот резултат, дури грчката национална историја да го добие конечниот изглед, едно исто поглавје може да се презапише, да ја смени формата, дури и да се претвори во нешто сосема спротивно. Големата идеја му наложи на националниот историчар да ги погрчи античките Македонци и да ги прикаже непријателите како истонародници. Да ја проследиме неговата мисла како што е напишана во "Историјата на грчката нација" од one thousand eight hundred and fifty-three година: "Македонците и ако не се споменувале во нај старите години на античката Елинска историја, сепак биле Елини. Посебно нивните кралеви се сметале себеси како потомци на Хераклес, а и другите Елини ги сметале за истонародници, бидејќи ги примале на олимписките игри, каде што никој не можел да учествува ако не бил Елин. Значи Македонија била една од многуте мали Елински кралства, кои ги имало во нај старите антички години на Елада. Кралството, како државна структура, не се укина во таа земја, како што се случи во поголем дел на Елада, туку продолжи да постои. Поради тоа Македонците, бидејќи живееле во најсеверниот крај на Елада и имале околу нив многу варварски народи со кои биле во непрекинати војни, не успеале да се унапредат како другите Елини во писменоста и во уметноста. Дури и на во времето Филип имале многу сличности со прастарите Елини, како што ги опишува Хомер во тројанската војна ". (1,853 Папаригопулос ст. 57) Како прав мајстор, Папаригопулос го состави толку добро македонскиот мозаик, што остави всушност простор не на идните наследници за поправки и двоумење, освен препишување на текстот на некој посовремен јазик или дополнување по желба со некои дополнителни забелешки.Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!Comment
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It was clearly a "political project" from the beginning, especially when there arose a need to acquire Macedonian territory. Up until then, the Modern Greek historians were quite aware of the fact that Macedon was a separate Kingdom and people - distinct from the Hellenes (Plutarch demonstrates this thoroughly below). As it was necessary to provide "historical justification" for acquisition of said Macedonian territory, ancient and medieval historians alike were used as a (collective) ventriloquist dummy for political and propaganda purposes.
Agesilaus
(died 401 B.C.E.)
By Plutarch
"Greece to herself doth a barbarian grow,
Others could not, she doth herself o'erthrow." What better can we say of those jealousies, and that league and conspiracy of the Greeks for their own mischief, which arrested fortune in full career, and turned back arms that were already uplifted against the barbarians, to be used upon themselves, and recalled into Greece the war which had been banished out of her? I by no means assent to Demaratus of Corinth, who said that those Greeks lost a great satisfaction that did not live to see Alexander sit in the throne of Darius. That sight should rather have drawn tears from them, when they considered that they had left that glory to Alexander and the Macedonians, whilst they spent all their own great commanders in playing them against each other in the fields of Leuctra, Coronea, Corinth, and Arcadia.
Nothing was greater or nobler than the behaviour of Agesilaus on this occasion, nor can a nobler instance be found in story of a ready obedience and just deference to orders. Hannibal, though in a bad condition himself and, almost driven out of Italy, could scarcely be induced to obey when he was called home to serve his country. Alexander made a jest of the battle between Agis and Antipater, laughing and saying, "So, whilst we were conquering Darius in Asia, it seems there was a battle of mice in Arcadia."
Plutarch: Life of Cleomenes - Chapters 1 - 22
Cleomenes lived from about 260 to 219 B.C. He was king of Sparta from 235 to 222 B.C.
This ruined the affairs of Greece. Had it not been for this, she might have recovered out of her present distress, and have maintained herself against the insolence and rapacity of the Macedonians. 2 Aratus either feared or distrusted Cleomenes, or envied his unexpected success. He thought it intolerable that a young man, newly sprung up, should rob him at once of the honour and power which he had been in possession of for 33 years, and come into a government which had been growing so long under his auspices. For this reason, he first tried what his interest and powers of persuasion would do to keep the Achaeans from closing with Cleomenes ; 3 but they were prevented from attending to him by their admiration of the great spirit of Cleomenes, and their opinion that the demands of the Spartans were not unreasonable, who only desired to bring Peloponnesus back to its ancient model. Aratus then undertook a thing which would not have become any man in Greece, but in him was particularly dishonourable, and unworthy of all his former conduct, both in diplomacy and in warfare. He called Antigonus into Greece and filled Peloponnesus with Macedonians, 4 though in his youth he had expelled them, and rescued the citadel of Corinth out of their hands. He was even an enemy to all kings, and was equally hated by them. Antigonus in particular, he loaded with a thousand reproaches, as appears from the writings he has left behind him. 5 He boasts that he had encountered and overcome innumerable difficulties in order to deliver Athens from a Macedonian garrison; and yet he brought those very Macedonians, armed as they were, into his own country, into his own house, and even into the women's apartment.Last edited by Carlin; 10-23-2012, 06:00 PM.Comment
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Carlin,
Here is something that you might find quite interesting. It's from Plutarch...
After this Titus had a meeting with Philip (who seemed disposed to make terms), and proffered him peace and friendship on condition that he allowed the Greeks to be independent and withdraw his garrisons from their cities; but this proffer Philip would not accept. Then at last it became clear even to the partisans of Philip that the Romans were come to wage war, not upon the Greeks, but upon the Macedonians in behalf of the Greeks.
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...amininus*.htmlAnd in this manner Titus put an end to the war; he returned to Philip his kingdom of Macedonia, but ordained that he should keep aloof from Greece,Last edited by Epirot; 10-22-2012, 04:30 AM.IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!Comment
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Epirot
That's a good find.....pretty well sums them I think!
On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"Comment
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It must be noted also that Titus was proclaimed as the hero of his time for liberating Greece from Macedonian yoke. Hence, he made some dedications on Delphi oracle boasting himself as descendant of Aenus:
The above passage is quite important because it can be well compared with a similar example. Even Alexander I and Alexander III bragged themselves as champions of Greek liberty, while they made certain dedications on Greek sanctuaries on behalf of their Heracleid "origin". The moral of story is simple: Every foreigner could contrive some Hellenic credentials on the ground he contributed to the cause of Greeks...But Titus himself took most pride in his liberation of Greece. For in dedicating at Delphi some silver bucklers and his own long shield, he provided them with this inscription:—
"O ye sons of Zeus, whose joy is in swift horsemanship, O ye Tyndaridae, princes of Sparta, Titus, a descendant of Aeneas, has brought you a most excellent gift, he who for the sons of the Greeks wrought freedom."IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!Comment
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The height of irony is that while Antiochus embarked a military campaign, Aetolians suggested him to employ some propaganda as to find an excuse for entering in Greece:
Presently, however, Antiochus crossed into Greece with many ships and a large army, and began to stir the cities into faction and revolt. The Aetolians made common cause with him, a people who had long been most inimically disposed towards the Romans, and they suggested to him, as a pretext that would account for the war, that he should offer the Greeks their freedom.IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!Comment
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Gentlemen please post ancient sources in a different topic. This is reserved for a specific time frame.Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!Comment
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