South Slavic tribes

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  • tchaiku
    Member
    • Nov 2016
    • 786

    #31

    ...........................

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    • tchaiku
      Member
      • Nov 2016
      • 786

      #32


      Slavic Y-DNA.
      Last edited by tchaiku; 05-23-2018, 04:22 AM.

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      • maco2envy
        Member
        • Jan 2015
        • 288

        #33
        I'm pretty sure eupedia maps lack peer assessment. If anyone can prove me wrong, please do.

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        • tchaiku
          Member
          • Nov 2016
          • 786

          #34
          30% Y-DNA in Macedonia seems about fine. It is quite high in Crete though.

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          • maco2envy
            Member
            • Jan 2015
            • 288

            #35
            cretans are turks

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            • Carlin
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 3332

              #36
              Martin W. Lewis on January 31, 2011

              Unlike many non-Russians, the Volga Finns have long had the option of “becoming Russian.” By doing so, of course, they lose their identity and threaten the future of their ethnic groups. But Finnic-speakers, whose lands once encompassed all of northern and eastern European Russia, have been acculturating into the Russian ethnos for more than 1,000 years. Some scholars think that the Russians themselves are descended as much from Finnic- as Slavic-speaking populations.

              The origins of the Russian people and state, most agree, can be traced back to the 9th century CE, when Swedish Vikings began to push through the rivers of western European Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine, seeking opportunities to raid and trade in the Black Sea region of the Byzantine Empire. According to the conventional story, the Norse provided the initial leadership of the region’s emergent kingdom of Rus’, but they soon submerged into the dominant Slavic-speaking population that they ruled. It is now clear, however, that many Finnic-speakers were also incorporated into this state. According to the Estonian-American political scientist Rein Taagepera, The Scandinavians provided the leaders and the name Rus’; the Slavic languages prevailed; and a major part of the genetic pool came from the Finnic tribes” (p. 46) (The “genetic pools” of the Finns, the Norse, and the Slavs, however, are much the same).

              Another major infusion of Finnic peoples into the Russian ethnic formation came during the late 11th and early 12th centuries. By this time, the once-united Rus’ state had splintered into smaller principalities. After a powerful new confederation of Turkic-speaking nomads (the Cumans) moved into the southern grasslands, Russians began to relocate to the northeast, pushing into the upper Volga territories of Finnic-speaking Merya, Muroms, and Meshchera. Over the next several hundred years, these eastern Finns gradually disappeared, their populations merging into that of the Slavic-speaking Russians. In the 1300s and 1400s, this ethnically mixed upper Volga area emerged as the focus of a new Russian state that would eventually transform into the Russian Empire.

              Source: http://www.geocurrents.info/cultural...#ixzz5GZhdLdm9

              Finnic peoples, Slavic peoples and Khazars in c. 9th century.


              The map comes from here:
              Last edited by Carlin; 05-25-2018, 10:40 PM.

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              • tchaiku
                Member
                • Nov 2016
                • 786

                #37
                It is generally accepted that South Slavs are heavily mixed with Natives. But I wonder what exactly were the Slavs that overran Greece?
                Carlin, any assumption?

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                • Carlin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3332

                  #38
                  Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                  It is generally accepted that South Slavs are heavily mixed with Natives. But I wonder what exactly were the Slavs that overran Greece?
                  Carlin, any assumption?
                  I'd speculate that they might have been mixed / assimilated with Scytho-Sarmatian elements (perhaps even other groups, such as the Avars or northern Dacian tribes).

                  Eastern Europe, AD 117-138.


                  PS: Alans, who were an Iranian nomadic pastoral people ended up migrating during the 4th–5th centuries AD. The Alans spoke an Eastern Iranian language which derived from Scytho-Sarmatian and which in turn evolved into modern Ossetian.

                  The migrations of the Alans during the 4th–5th centuries AD, from their homeland in the North Caucasus. Major settlement areas are shown in yellow, Alan civilian emigration in red and military campaigns in orange.



                  Source:


                  During the Middle Ages, Byzantine chroniclers claimed that Catalonia/Catalania derives from the local medley of Goths with Alans, initially constituting a Goth-Alania.
                  Last edited by Carlin; 05-26-2018, 12:44 AM.

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                  • tchaiku
                    Member
                    • Nov 2016
                    • 786

                    #39
                    Dacians seem too northern for modern Greeks, maybe Illyrians and Thracians?

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                    • Carlin
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 3332

                      #40
                      Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                      Dacians seem too northern for modern Greeks, maybe Illyrians and Thracians?
                      What do you mean by too northern?

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                      • tchaiku
                        Member
                        • Nov 2016
                        • 786

                        #41
                        Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                        What do you mean by too northern?
                        Less Mediterranean in appearance/genes.

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                        • Carlin
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3332

                          #42
                          Well, I guess it's possible there were some Thracians as well (and not northern Dacians - but I find it unlikely). Overall I think the Slavs who came were mixed with Scythians/Sarmatians and Avars.

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                          • Carlin
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 3332

                            #43
                            Vlahorinhini

                            During the second half of the 7th century (650-700), Pervoundos, the ruler of the "Sklavinia" of the Rinhini, was accused of conspiracy against Salonica, and thus arrested, was imprisoned in Constantinople and eventually executed by the "Byzantines" in 674. Prior to his arrest, Pervoundos moved comfortably between his "Sklavinia" and Salonica, contacted and seemed to work closely with the Byzantine authorities, he certainly spoke Greek and showed he had the comfort of a ruler with deep roots in the area. The news of the execution of Pervoundos caused a rebellion of the Sklavenians around Salonica and especially of the Rinhini (between Salonica and Asprovalta), Strymonites (in the estuary of Strymonas) and Sagoudates (probably in the area between Salonica, Veria and Olympus).

                            Although with a first view the revolutionaries are treated as Slavic populations, there are serious indications that they were Vlachs or at least a mixture of Vlachs and Slavs, judging at least from non-Slavic and probably Latin origin the name of the Pervoundos and the Latin name of the Sagoudates. Perhaps these references to Rinhini and Sagoudates are some of the early boosters for the existence and survival in the Balkan territories of "Byzantium", and particularly around Salonica, of an older and indigenous Latin-speaking population, albeit in a mixture with Slavic and other populations, which gradually gave birth to the Vlachs.

                            The guesswork for the survival of Latins among the populations around Salonica and collectively described as Sklavini-Slavs is reinforced by a story provided by the sources of the "Miracles of St. Demetrius". The anonymous writer, referring to the "Slavs" who had been defeated and dispersed by Justinian's army at the end of the 7th century, denotes their families and their homes with two Latin words -- the words "φαμίλια/familia" and "κάσα/casa", which was probably borrowed from their own language.

                            URL:
                            ΟΙ ΟΛΥΜΠΙΟΙ ΒΛΑΧΟΙ ΚΑΙ ΤΑ ΒΛΑΧΟΜΟΓΛΕΝΑΤΑ ΒΛΑΧΟΜΟΓΛΕΝΑ1.5. Οι Βλαχορηχίνοι Κατά τη διάρκεια του β' μισού του 7ου αιώνα (650-700), ο Περβούνδος, ο ρήγας της

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                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              #44
                              Were the Antes north Pontic Goths?

                              How about this my friends? Dr. Bohdan Struminski has argued and concluded that the Antes were most likely north Pontic Goths (ancestors of the Crimean Goths), rather than Slavs, let alone Eastern Slavs.

                              To use his concluding words: this conclusion may sadden some Macedonians, who have become accustomed to consider Antes as their glorious Slavic ancestors.

                              Please let me know if you'd like to read all pages. I am only attaching a few pages here.

                              Related URL - Linguistic Interrelations in Early Rus': Northmen, Finns, and East Slavs, Bohdan Struminski:






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                              • Carlin
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 3332

                                #45
                                Re: Sklavi -- There was a BALTIC tribe called Skalvi or Skalvians. Unsure of any links with the Sklavi.



                                The Scalovians (Lithuanian: Skalviai; German: Schalauer), also known as the Skalvians, Schalwen and Schalmen, were a Baltic tribe related to the Prussians. According to the Chronicon terrae Prussiae of Peter of Dusburg, the now extinct Scalovians inhabited the land of Scalovia south of the Curonians and Samogitians, by the lower Neman River ca. 1240.

                                The meaning is uncertain: skalwa "splinter (living split off)" or skalauti "between waters". According to Prussian legends, the tribe's name is derived from one of the sons of King Widewuto named Schalauo.



                                Furthermore (perhaps not related to this thread), the old/ancient Prussians were also a Baltic tribe.

                                During the 13th century, the Old Prussians were conquered by the Teutonic Knights. The former German state of Prussia took its name from the Baltic Prussians, although it was led by Germans. The Teutonic Knights and their troops transferred Prussians from southern Prussia to northern Prussia. Many Old Prussians were also killed in crusades requested by Poland and the popes. Many were also assimilated and converted to Christianity. The old Prussian language was extinct by the 17th or early 18th century. Many Old Prussians emigrated due to Teutonic crusades.




                                The Germans came, conquered the Prussians (many Prussians were exterminated, others assimilated, and some fled) and took the PRUSSIAN NAME almost immediately.

                                I mean, talk about cultural appropriation.
                                Last edited by Carlin; 10-07-2018, 01:48 AM.

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