Common Macedonian Soldier Proud NOT To Be Greek

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  • Onur
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2010
    • 2389

    #31
    Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View Post
    Greek was definitely not the lingua france in the Middle East and especially in the territory of the Persian empire before Alexander.Instead Aramaic was the lingua franca in that area.Greek became the lingua franca only after Alexander conquered those areas.
    This is wrong. You can come to Turkey and see many monuments which shows amalgamation of ancient Greek and Persian cultures prior to Alexander. You know, Anatolia was belonged to the Persians b4 Alexander the Great. Persian rulers and elites would surely speak ancient Greek tongue much earlier than the campaigns of Alexander. Already, Persians and ancient Greeks was already mixed culturally b4 Alexander`s campaigns. You can see that by looking at the ancient Persian remains and mausoleums prior to Alexander`s era.

    Comment

    • makedonche
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2008
      • 3242

      #32
      Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View Post
      Greek was definitely not the lingua france in the Middle East and especially in the territory of the Persian empire before Alexander.Instead Aramaic was the lingua franca in that area.Greek became the lingua franca only after Alexander conquered those areas.

      "In the following centuries,as the cuneiform-writing Assyrians extended their empire westwards,they adopted the whole package of Aramaic language and script to ease official communication between the new provinces of the Assyrian Empire.It soon became the one common language of the Middle East, and its use became even more widespread during the Persian period.As Aramaic gained wider currency as the language and script of government, it was increasingly written by people for whom it was not their first language, many of whom doubtless had prodigious volumes of official writing to produce….
      Although this Imperial Aramaic script developed some regional variations,for as long as the Persian Empire was the unifying power it retained a broad similarity throughout the
      Persian-ruled territories.But a century or two after the Persian collapse in the fourth century BC at the hands of Alexander the Great,local differences began to proliferate. In the new Hellenistic kingdoms of the Seleucids and Ptolemies,Greek was now the official language of government:but the existing peoples or tribes within these territories were by now too habituated to Aramaic to change to a new and unknown language".
      The Nabataean Arabs were one of the most remarkable peoples of the Ancient World but are today known only for their hauntingly beautiful rock-carved capital Petra. This vividly illustrated book recounts the story of a lost civilization, remembering both its flowering and its demise.


      “From the sixth to the fourth centuries B.C. Israel was a satrapy within the vast Persian empire. At its height this empire extended from India in the cast to the Aegean in the west and from the Black Sea in the north to Egypt in the south.The Aramaic language, the lingua franca of the Persian empire, became the language of the Jewish people, including Jesus himself. His words spoken from the cross—"Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani" (Mk 15:34)—are Aramaic”.
      The pathway to understanding the New Testament leads through the vibrant landscape of the first-century Greco-Roman world. The New Testament is rooted in the concrete historical events of that world. In Jesus the Rise of Early Christianity Paul Barnett not only places the New Testament within that world of caesars and Herods, proconsuls and Pharisees, Sadducees and revolutionaries, but argues that the mainspring and driving force of early Christian history is the historical Jesus. We cannot understand the rise of Christianity apart from this Jesus, the messiah of Israel and the spiritual and intellectual impact he had on his immediate followers and those who succeeded them. From his intimate acquaintance with the sources, the evidence and the problems of New Testament history, Barnett offers fresh insights. His telling of the story skillfully avoids the encumbrance of extraneous details and side journeys. From the brith of Jesus to the founding of the messianic community, from the rise of Paul's mission to the Gentiles to the writing of the Gospels, Barnett offers a comprehensive account of the movement that would change the face of world history. Jesus the Rise of Early Christianity is a comprehensive survey of New Testament history that will meet the needs of students and teachers of the New Testament. In its engagment with contemporary scholarship and its emphasis on the propelling role of the historical and risen Jesus in the rise of Christianity, it provides a timely rejoinder to current revisionist exploration of Christian origins.


      And this:
      http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/8293/aramaic.gif
      Agamoi
      Why do you keep quoting ridiculous sources and try to make them seem credible? Tell us who is Jane Taylor who wrote the book you refer to!
      A little help for you:-
      Jane Taylor is a writer and photographer who has lived in Amman, Jordan since 1989. Her photographs have been used not only in her own books, but also in a wide range of magazines and books, and in advertising/marketing campaigns.


      Her photographic archives are available to publishers, designers and advertising agencies – wherever spectacular images are required. Specific picture searches can be undertaken.


      Apart from extensive coverage of Jordan (including many aerial shots), the archives include Yemen, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Palestine, Israel, Ethiopia, Iran, Peru, Turkey, China, Nepal, South Africa, Botswana and Namibia. She has also photographed in Iraq for UNICEF and other relief agencies in April-May 1991 and Jan.-Feb. 1992 to show the effects of the war and sanctions on the people of Iraq, in particular the children.


      The range of her books, and where they are available, can be seen in the Books page.


      For permission to reproduce any image, or for a picture search, please contact [email protected]

      On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

      Comment

      • makedonche
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2008
        • 3242

        #33
        Originally posted by Voltron View Post
        George, sometimes I have a hell of a time understanding a Greek Cypriot. What is that supposed to mean though ? That they arent Greek ? There are many examples.
        Voltron
        News flash - all the Cyprians I know refuse to call themselves Greek, they rather prefer "Cyprian". They get offended if you call them Greek, imagine that, there are actually people out there who don't want to be Greek, who would have thought?
        On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

        Comment

        • makedonche
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2008
          • 3242

          #34
          Originally posted by Voltron View Post
          There are conflicting stories regarding that incident and not just limited to that one either. I still firmly believe that it was a dialect. They had every chance to promote their own language, why didnt they ? For commercial purposes ? Thats ridiculous. Are we going to speak Chinese within the next decade ? Should I start calligraphy lessons ?
          Voltron
          If the Chinese keep buying up ports and other properties in Greece, damn right you better learn how to speak Chinese! Hell it may even do you good to broaden those narrow minded horizons that limit your cognitive abilities to only things that are Greek - which according to you Greeks is.... well, just about ..."everything".
          On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

          Comment

          • makedonche
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2008
            • 3242

            #35
            Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View Post
            Philip Freeman is a classic scholar who apparently lacks even basic linguistic knowledge which one who writes books on the ancient Macedonian language should have.Otherwise he is just lying.Let me explain:He claims ancient Macedonians couldn't pronounce properly the "Greek sounds" because they said "ΒΙΛΙΠΠΟΣ","ΞΑΝΔΟΣ" and "ΓΑΙΤΕΑΣ" instead of "proper Greek" ΦΙΛΙΠΠΟΣ,ΞΑΝΘΟΣ and ΧΑΙΤΕΑΣ,i.e the known Macedonian habbit to turn in some words voiceless aspirate consonants of standard Greek Φ,Θ and Χ to voiced stops Β,Δ and Γ.Had Mr. Freeman bothered himself with studying the Macedonian words that are recorded by ancient lexicographers like Hesychius,Amerias e.t.c,he would have known that these consonants were not unknown to Macedonian phonology and they could indeed pronounce them.Few examples that expose Mr. Freemans ignorance,i.e. Macedonian words containing the consonants Φ,Θ and Χ,which Macedonians "could not pronounce because they were Greek" according to Mr. Freeman:

            1)The Macedonian word ἀρφύς (synonymous with Attic ἱμάς,i.e. "cestus")

            2)The Macedonian word Ἠμαθίη,the first name of Macedonia.

            3)The Macedonian word θούριδες,synonymous with Attic νύμφαι and Μοῦσαι,i.e. "brides","Muse".

            4)The Macedonian word χάρων,synonymous with Attic λέων,i.e. "lion"

            And because i know you will question the reliability of a wikipedia article,here is this word in Hesychius lexicon (right column,15th word) :
            http://books.google.com/books?id=Gp1fAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA1035
            Agamoi
            Of course he is.....according to you! Given your record here of posting references to laughable sources with no credentials, you are the last one who should be challenging anybody else here!
            On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

            Comment

            • TrueMacedonian
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 3810

              #36
              Here are some more pages from Philip Freeman's book 'Alexander the Great'.









              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

              Comment

              • TrueMacedonian
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2009
                • 3810

                #37
                Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                I dont think this guy has ever set foot in Greece or Macedonia for that matter.
                Biography. I hope you enjoy the books as much as I enjoyed writing them.


                Author
                There's a story I'd like to tell you about my choice to become a Classics professor. In that story I sit as a child at my father's knee listening to tales of Greek gods and heroes, practice conjugating Latin verbs at the dinner table, and dream of the day I could travel to Greece and Rome to see the fabled lands of Plato and Caesar. I'd like to tell that story, but the truth is very different.

                When I was a boy, I cared much more about comic books than Homer or Virgil. My father was stationed in Italy for a year when I was twelve. I spent the whole time earning Boy Scout merit badges and bowling with my friends rather than trekking around the country looking at Roman ruins. When I got back to the states and entered high school, I signed up for French rather than Latin because a dead language was the last thing I was interested in.

                When I started my first year of college I thought Latin might be fun (and not too hard). I lasted a week before I dropped the class. I just couldn't understand the notion of declensions, verb-final syntax, and the dreaded ablative case. But I eventually gave it another try and persevered. Then I ended up adding Greek, mythology, and archaeology classes to my schedule until I figured out I might as well be a Classics major. By the time I was nearing the end of my undergraduate years, I decided that I wanted to teach in college even though I had never taught anything to anyone up to that point.

                After finishing my degree at the University of Texas, I applied to a number of Ph.D. programs. At the last minute, I sent in an application to Harvard. I couldn't believe it that spring when I got the letter from them saying I was accepted.

                There's nothing quite as much fun as standing in front of a group of college students and opening new worlds to them. It's such a privilege that I would probably do it for free (don't tell the dean I said that). There's nothing better than sharing stories with bright young people about Achilles and how anger can destroy a person's life; or Odysseus and why he gave up immortality; or Dante and how the worst sin you could ever commit isn't murder, but betrayal of someone who loves you.

                I've taught at Boston University, Washington University, and now Luther College in the beautiful hills (yes, hills) of northeast Iowa. I've also been a visiting scholar at the Harvard Divinity School, the American Academy in Rome, and the Center for Hellenic Studies in Washington, D.C. I've given talks on the ancient world at the Smithsonian Institution and interviews on National Public Radio, but my best audience ever was a class of enthusiastic elementary school students in St. Louis.

                A few years ago, I decided that I wanted to share stories about the ancient world with an audience beyond my students, so I started writing books for anyone with a library card. Of course, I still teach full time, run a small Classics department, and attend lots of faculty meetings. Most of my writing is done during the summers and college breaks, or at spare moments between Greek and Latin classes.

                I hope you enjoy the books as much as I enjoyed writing them.
                In his book he thanks his "guides who guided me in Alexander's footsteps and my wife for all her photography" which can be seen in his book as well.
                Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                Comment

                • George S.
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 10116

                  #38
                  TM this guy has got credentials & he is bigPHD & a professor.He certainly knows his stuff & what his talking about.
                  "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                  GOTSE DELCEV

                  Comment

                  • George S.
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 10116

                    #39
                    Agamoi your references don't make sense.Did you see the quote TM gave & makes sense alexander did not want to share the glory with the greeks why because it was a macedonian conquest.THe greeks hardly did anything as they were placed at the back of the entourage.Another thing that i'm reminded of is that there were more greeks fighting for the persian army against alexander than the much fewer on the macedonian army.THe greeks were not even used in the conquests it was an all out macedonian conquest.
                    Last edited by George S.; 02-15-2011, 10:30 PM. Reason: edit
                    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                    GOTSE DELCEV

                    Comment

                    • Voltron
                      Banned
                      • Jan 2011
                      • 1362

                      #40
                      Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
                      In his book he thanks his "guides who guided me in Alexander's footsteps and my wife for all her photography" which can be seen in his book as well.
                      Who were his guides ? The Hunza's ? Seriously has this guy stepped foot in either Greece or Macedonia ?

                      This guy dropped out of Latin because he didnt like the syntax for pete's sake. It might be a good read but thats about it.

                      Comment

                      • Voltron
                        Banned
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 1362

                        #41
                        Originally posted by makedonche View Post
                        Voltron
                        If the Chinese keep buying up ports and other properties in Greece, damn right you better learn how to speak Chinese! Hell it may even do you good to broaden those narrow minded horizons that limit your cognitive abilities to only things that are Greek - which according to you Greeks is.... well, just about ..."everything".
                        Sure, I would know Chinese and probably even how to write it. That does not mean I will not leave a single shred of evidence to show that I am different from them. To imply that the Macedonians completely abandoned their native language for the sake of trade and commerce is unthinkable. Espescially if they are not proud of the language or culture they are spreading. The key subject of this thread is "pride". This guy claims Macedonians wanted nothing to do with Greeks. Didnt like Greeks, didnt want to share glory with the Greeks, put the Greeks in the Backburner because he didnt trust them, and so forth. So why would they spread something they had disdain for ? Only reasonable explanation is that they were Greeks themselves.

                        Comment

                        • Voltron
                          Banned
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 1362

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Onur View Post
                          This is wrong. You can come to Turkey and see many monuments which shows amalgamation of ancient Greek and Persian cultures prior to Alexander. You know, Anatolia was belonged to the Persians b4 Alexander the Great. Persian rulers and elites would surely speak ancient Greek tongue much earlier than the campaigns of Alexander. Already, Persians and ancient Greeks was already mixed culturally b4 Alexander`s campaigns. You can see that by looking at the ancient Persian remains and mausoleums prior to Alexander`s era.
                          So you think the Persians in all their mighty glory used Greek as their official language because they knew each other ? This happened after ATG's conquest not before.

                          Comment

                          • The LION will ROAR
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 3231

                            #43
                            Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                            So you think the Persians in all their mighty glory used Greek as their official language because they knew each other ? This happened after ATG's conquest not before.
                            Voltron, Maybe have a read of this..
                            Alexander DID NOT SPREAD HELLENIC CULTURE!!!!
                            The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

                            Comment

                            • Voltron
                              Banned
                              • Jan 2011
                              • 1362

                              #44
                              Originally posted by The LION will ROAR View Post
                              Voltron, Maybe have a read of this..
                              Alexander DID NOT SPREAD HELLENIC CULTURE!!!!
                              http://www.maknews.com/forum/macedon...re-t12283.html
                              Neither is the sky blue, its an array of many different particles coming down the Earth's stratosphere that makes it look that way.

                              Comment

                              • Voltron
                                Banned
                                • Jan 2011
                                • 1362

                                #45
                                Here is a Ring. Said to be from the Thracians. Now here is a good example. Greek letters being used to show evidence of their language. Just like Cyrillic is used today.





                                Anythng similar in Macedonia ? Anything ?

                                Illyrians, same thing for them. There is evidence to show for them. Even the Southern Hellenised ones. Their religion or Gods is another example. Again, I ask. What about Macedonians ? Even Rome had their latinised versions of Greek Gods but it was still Roman. Again, Where is anything to show for Macedonians? Its the lack of evidence that is trying to be used as proof while at the same time saying anything Greek related is on the basis of pure influence. I dont buy it. Sorry.

                                Comment

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