Jane Sandanski and the Macedonian identity

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  • julie
    Senior Member
    • May 2009
    • 3869

    #31
    Thank you Daskale, its awesome
    "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

    Comment

    • Prolet
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 5241

      #32
      Here is an interesting clip about Sandanski where a TV ekipa from A1 was kicked out of the city because they filmed there for 10 minutes.

      I dont like A1 very much, but i always welcome any similar report about our people in Pirinska Makedonija.

      We have the Bulgarians in Gevgevlija chasing our citizens around, doing what they like spitting on our people while our people are kicked out of the country for filming. Bulgaria is living in the dark ages, they behave like animals.



      YouTube - The Macedonians in Sandanski Bulgaria dont have a HUMAN RIGHTS
      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

      Comment

      • julie
        Senior Member
        • May 2009
        • 3869

        #33
        Spartan you are beautiful, thank you, am blushing
        Have the blue eyes but am blonde (with some lovely grey interspersed )

        I do like my avatar
        "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

        Comment

        • Spartan
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 1037

          #34
          ^^I like it too!

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            #35
            Originally posted by julie View Post
            Have the blue eyes but am blonde (with some lovely grey interspersed )
            I can vouch for this.
            And will add a wonderful nature as well.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • julie
              Senior Member
              • May 2009
              • 3869

              #36
              Bless you RTG, the earth tremor Adelaide felt was my head exploding out of the house.
              You are a sweetheart
              "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

              Comment

              • Onur
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2010
                • 2389

                #37
                Guys, i read a book about Young Turk`s revolution last week and i did a presentation of it yesterday. It was the memoirs of the governor of Salonika in 1908. The governor was pro-Albanian, probably an Albanian descent, i dunno.

                The major part of his memoirs was about Macedonia and the revolution of Young Turks which happened when he was the governor of Salonika.

                The parts about the Young Turks and their collaboration with the Sandanski caught my attention. According to the author, Young Turks agreed with the Sandanski`s group for the creation of autonomous state of Macedonia inside Turkey. Since the elites of Young Turks educated in France, they had nationalistic and Pan-Turkish ideas and according to the author, this created a certain unrest among Albanians who always believed the muslim brotherhood between Turks and Albanians. He says that the Albanians started to feel that they are slowly being excluded from the governance of the empire. The final blow was; since the Young Turks had an agreement with Sandanski, he demanded from Young Turks to stop the oppression of Albanian bashibozuks upon christian Macedonians.

                [Ottoman Empire went bankrupt after the war with Russians at 1878 and they couldn't pay the monthly salary of the Turkish security forces. Then Albanians asked for an agreement to the Sultan to have all the weapons and equipments of the former Turkish security forces in Macedonia to be the only police force there without taking any salary and Sultan agreed to that]

                So, Young Turks asks for all Albanian bashibozuks to leave their weapons and they even abandon for Albanians to carry weapons too. Author agrees that the bashibozuks was doing unfair oppression to the christians of Macedonia but he says that Young Turks did a fatal mistake by having an agreement with the Sandanski`s group because they were the weakest group inside Macedonia. Author says that the Young Turks should have an agreement with Albanians and Bulgarians instead and split up Macedonia between them and Turkey. He says that after Young Turks abandoned for Albanians to carry weapons, Albanian bashibozuks retreated back to current Albania from Macedonia and they started uprising too.


                Other interesting information was, author says that the Young Turks and Sandanski was making secret plans to assassinate the leaders of pro-Bulgarian rebels inside Macedonia and even assassinate Bulgarian Tsar too. He says that this cooperation of Young Turks and Sandanski`s group made Bulgars and Serbs so anxious cuz they never preferred to see autonomous Macedonia as a whole but they wanted to split up Macedonia for themselves. So, eventually Bulgars and Serbs becomes hostile to Sandanski and they assassinated him laters.



                Guys, do you have any other information about Sandanski`s cooperation with Young Turks? An article perhaps?

                Comment

                • Pelister
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 2742

                  #38
                  This just blew me out of the water.

                  Originally posted by Indigen
                  INSURGENT POSITION STORMED, FLIGHT BEFORE ARTILLERY FIRE
                  LONDON, Aug. 31.
                  Advices which have been received at Salonika state that Servet Pasha, with six battalions, stormed a position held by 3000 Macedonians at Smilevo. 1000 Macedonians were killed, and the remaineder fled before the artillery fire of the Turks.
                  Daniel, I read the answer you gave as to why you chose the 8 ray sun symbol with interest. The avatar for many of us means something we deeply feel. Wear it with pride.

                  Comment

                  • Pelister
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2742

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Onur View Post
                    Guys, i read a book about Young Turk`s revolution last week and i did a presentation of it yesterday. It was the memoirs of the governor of Salonika in 1908. The governor was pro-Albanian, probably an Albanian descent, i dunno.

                    [...]

                    Guys, do you have any other information about Sandanski`s cooperation with Young Turks? An article perhaps?
                    Here are some snippets about Sandanski and the Young Turks taken from the book 'The Macedonian Struggle, 1897-1913 by Douglas Dakin.

                    In 1908 the Bulgarian Vrchovists, having infiltrated the Macedonian organization, went on to denounce Yane Sandanski and his supporters, and all Macedonian activists; they preferred to Bulgarianize the Macedonian population through a policy of long term propoganda. The new Bulgarian minister, General Paprikov, was hostile to the formation of armed Macedonian groups, mostly from the large Macedonian emigrant community, on Bulgarian soil.
                    Source; Douglas Dakin, p.361 ]

                    Yane Sandanski initially supported the Young Turk revolution, as it promised administrative autonomy for Macedonians
                    Dakin, p. 379]

                    The Bulgarian agents, who had infiltrated the Macedonian revolutionary organization, and now dominated it, tried to find favor with the Young Turk revolution, and began working to convince them to turn against Sandanski's “propoganda” and other Macedonian leaders, and fighters. The Young Turks however, would not turn against Sandanski.
                    Source; Dakin, pp.387


                    In 1908, Sandanski and his supporters, Panitsa and Deliradiev, demanded reforms, including universal suffrage, and equal treatment, but this did not sit well with the ideals of the Young Turk movement, which wanted to get rid off religious and racial distinctions, and extend Ottoman citizenship to everyone.
                    Source: Dakin, pp. 387-8

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      #40
                      Has anybody had any luck trying to obtain this document from Stavridis? Apparently Todor Panica tells him of how Jane Sandanski considered the Macedonians of his time as the direct descendants of the ancient Macedonians. If this is so, then the document would be extremely valuable.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Daskalot
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 4345

                        #41
                        Here is something I found:
                        Ο Γιάνε Σαντάνσκι θα ηγηθεί πολιτικά του αυτονομιστικού μακεδονικού κινήματος. Μιλώντας για αυτόν, ο πρώην γραμματέας του ΚΚΕ Λευτέρης Σταυρίδης θα πει πως υπήρξε ο άνθρωπος “όστις έκαμε το μεγαλύτερον κακόν που ηδύνατο να κάμει άνθρωπος εις την Βουλγαρίαν”, εκείνος που “ημπόδιζε τους σλαυοφώνους κατοίκους της Μακεδονίας να θεωρούν εαυτούς Βουλγάρους και εκαλλιέργει Μακεδονικήν εθνικήν συνείδησιν”. Βλ. Ελευθέριος Σταυρίδης, Τα παρασκήνια του ΚΚΕ, 1953, σελ. 212 και 214.
                        Source: http://lithoksou.net/leviathan.html
                        Macedonian Truth Organisation

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13670

                          #42
                          Here is an interview with Jane Sandanski by Branislav Nusic, a Serbian writer for the newspaper 'Politika', 1908, Belgrade. It used to be on wikipedia some time ago until someone deleted it. Here is a partial and general translation:

                          -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Nusic: These events concern the most closely and most directly us as small nations - Serbians, Bulgarians, Greeks. That's why I came here to investigate these events.

                          Sandanski: The future life of small nations doesn't have any conditions. Bulgaria and Serbia did wrong because they followed their own interests. Their main goal wasn't freedom for this people here, but their selfish interests, expanding of their states. After these events, they would stay where they are, and we would make a fatherland here.

                          Nusic: So, you are not allowed to enter Bulgaria?

                          Sandanski: I dare not go to Bulgaria, but I don't need it. Here is my Bulgaria (speaking about Macedonia).
                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------


                          Here is the actual article.



                          Although this article may be open to some manipulative interpretation given the terminology used as a result of exarchist propaganda, it is clear that Sandanski's fatherland is Macedonia, and that he considers it distinct from the actual Bulgaria. Furthermore, he distinguishes the interests of his own people in Macedonia as opposed to those of Serbia and Bulgaria.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • United MKD
                            Member
                            • Jul 2011
                            • 547

                            #43
                            What was Sandanski's involvement in the Balkan Wars?

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              #44
                              He still had the idea of Macedonian self-liberation but towards the end appears to have thought of this as impossible and that Macedonian freedom from Greek and Serb oppression could only be achieved by supporting Bulgaria. Thus, he fought in Macedonia as a member of a Macedonian detachment which supported the Bulgarian army. The Russian journalist Viktorov-Toparov (cited in wikipedia but with no link) recorded Sandanski as saying the following in May 1913:
                              There, look this always happens when someone is freed by force of arms! How fine it would have been if Macedonia could have freed herself! But now it's happened, our duty is to fight alongside Bulgaria, and for Bulgaria.
                              Of course, much of the Macedonian fighters were forced to fight Bulgaria's wars elsewhere, leaving Macedonia practically undefended against the invading vultures.

                              Organized persecution and massacre of the Macedonian Population in Kukush Region during the Second Balkan War By Dr. Ljubitsa Jancheva, INI Skopje, RM Translated and edited by Risto Stefov December 19, 2010 Horror, suffering, destroyed cities, burned down villages and genocide are characteristics of every
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13670

                                #45
                                Originally posted by Daskalot
                                Here is something I found:
                                Ο Γιάνε Σαντάνσκι θα ηγηθεί πολιτικά του αυτονομιστικού μακεδονικού κινήματος. Μιλώντας για αυτόν, ο πρώην γραμματέας του ΚΚΕ Λευτέρης Σταυρίδης θα πει πως υπήρξε ο άνθρωπος “όστις έκαμε το μεγαλύτερον κακόν που ηδύνατο να κάμει άνθρωπος εις την Βουλγαρίαν”, εκείνος που “ημπόδιζε τους σλαυοφώνους κατοίκους της Μακεδονίας να θεωρούν εαυτούς Βουλγάρους και εκαλλιέργει Μακεδονικήν εθνικήν συνείδησιν”. Βλ. Ελευθέριος Σταυρίδης, Τα παρασκήνια του ΚΚΕ, 1953, σελ. 212 και 214.
                                Source: http://lithoksou.net/leviathan.html
                                Here is a Macedonian translation of the above:
                                jane sandanski ke bide lider na avtonomistickoto makedonsko dvizenje. zboruvajki za nego, poranesniot sekretar na KPG Levteris Stavridis kaza deka toj bese covek sto go napravi najgolemoto losho na Bugarija, toj sto im precese na lugjeto od Makedonija da se smetaat za Bugari i gi terase da odrzuvaat makedonska nacionalna svest. gledaj Elefterios Stavridis, zadscenskite raboti na KPG, str.212 i 214.
                                Here is the front page of that book:

                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

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