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Old 07-22-2009, 12:50 AM   #11
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SoM I'll keep looking for what you're talking about. I'll post something soon that may be of relevance to this topic.
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giorgo View Post
What, Don't say things like that, it colours everything else you say with the same brush !!
How should I say things Giorgo? Should I lie and say that the words 'Greece' and 'Athens' do have an etymology in the Greek language? I encourage you to open a specific thread for the topic and explain to all readers the Hellenic etymology of the above words.

Back to the topic at hand. Prior to, during and after its creation, Serbia had newspapers with the name 'Greciia' labelled on them, they only had 2 elementary schools in Belgrade in which the language of education was Greek, according to Serbs themselves such as Stojanovic and Karanovic the upper classes spoke and identified as Greeks. This was the exact same situation in Macedonia, Bulgaria and Albania. According to the logic that you people use in trying to criminally usurp the Macedonian identity for yourselves (unsuccessfully), even the Serbian population consisted of 'Hellenes'.
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:18 AM   #13
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Serbia had newspapers with the name 'Greciia' labelled on them, they only had 2 elementary schools in Belgrade in which the language of education was Greek
Wow, I did not realise the "brotherhood" ran that strong.

As an aside point, I did read that the (forming) Serbs of the 14th century were so fearful of becoming catholics that they preferred the oppression of the Turks.
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:30 AM   #14
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Now I know why the Serbs and Greeks see them self as brothers.

Serbs are Greeks as Slavonians under cover, while the Greeks are Slavonians as Hellens under cover.

Wow, that even makes sense in a kind of bizar way
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:32 AM   #15
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Here is an apparent citation of a 'Serbian' language from Bosnia in the 14th century.
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http://cafehome.tripod.com/serbianbosnia.pdf
Bosnian Rullers called their Language Serbian. Bosnian ban (viceroy) Stjepan Kotromanic (1322-1353) declares in 1333. a letter to Dubrovnik in which he states: "thus I evoke to the noble ban Stefan my golden seal, so that all may know and see the truth. This is why the seals are equal, two in Latin and two in Serbian and all are sealed in gold". At the time, it was a tradition to give out four letters of the same text in Serbian and Latin. This letter may be found in Franc Miklosic, Monumenta Serbica, Vienna 1858. str. 105-109 Lj. Stojanovic - "Stare Srpske povelje i pisma" (old Serbian letters), I, 46.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:02 PM   #16
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Ok here's something that I have read before that might be of use for this topic.



The Balkans in World History, by Andrew Baruch Wachtel
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:07 PM   #17
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Could it be that the peasant noted in Wachtel's book was how many of the illiterate peasants of his time felt about their language. Simply as "our language"?
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:46 PM   #18
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Karadzic defined "Serbian".
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:19 PM   #19
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Indeed he did, I would say that the name for the language such as 'nashi' or 'ilirski' would have been the norm, whereas names such as 'Serb' and 'Croat' would denote groups of people, but not ethnicities or linguistic names. Interesting to note is that when I conducted a search on the Serbian language some time ago I could find more pre 19th century reference to it as 'pucki', now it seems as that information is scarce. Before Karadzic defined Serbian as a language, who spoke of it, as a Serbian language? The events prior to him refer to a period of time where the local vernacular was melted together with OCS and Russian, and called Slavo-Serbian.
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavoserbian
The Slavonic-Serbian language (славяносербскій / slavjanoserbskij or словенскій slovenskij; Serbian: славеносрпски / slavenosrpski) is a form of the Serbian language which was predominantly used at the end of the 18th century and the beginning of the 19th century by Serbian population in Vojvodina, and the Serbian diaspora in other parts of the Habsburg Monarchy, mainly as a written language. As such, it was also used in Montenegro and early stages of liberated Serbia.

Slavoserbian was under high influence of the Church Slavonic language and the Russian language of that time.
Slavo-Serbian, Slavjano-Bulgarian, Slav-Macedonian, seems to be a common trend in the early stages of modern development for these languages, as we know, Pulevski adds the 'Slav' prefix in some of his writings to glorify the fact that OCS is an ancestor tongue of Macedonian.


Here is something interesting also, concerning the Orthodox refugees from the Balkans that settled in Russia during the 18th century, among whom were Serbs, Macedonians and Bulgarians.
Quote:
By the decree of the Senate of May 29, 1753, the free lands of this area were offered for settlement to Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians, Hungarians and other Balkan peoples of Orthodox Christian denomination in order to ensure frontier protection and development of this part of Southern steppes.

Slavo-Serbia was directly governed by Russia's Governing Senate. The settlers eventually formed the Bakhmut hussar regiment in 1764. Also in 1764, Slavo-Serbia was transformed into the Donets uyezd of Yekaterinoslav Governorate (now in Dnipropetrovs'ka oblast', Ukraine).
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:52 PM   #20
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Interesting stuff SoM.
I wonder if some of those Russian immigrants coming into Greece now are some of these people (of varied ethnicity) who maintained an Orthodox connection to the Patriachate?
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