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Old 08-15-2018, 06:44 AM   #11
Karposh
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Bill, I had no idea about the history behind Kladorabi and how close to home my question has struck for you. I meant no offence whatsoever. And, if you have taken any, then I appologise wholeheartedly. I'm only going off the story's description of Kladorabi descendants in Australia and Greece, which is why I asked for someone who has any insight about this village because there is always a reason why people behave the way they do. My interest on the matter was out of genuine curiosity to know why the hearts of these villagers have been hardened so much, that's all. Without knowing about Kladorabi's past, I was really annoyed to read the story's description of these villagers as die-hard Greeks. Thank you for setting me straight and I'm sure Kladorabi has it's fare share of real Macedonian patriots just like your dedo, who, like you said, was born and died in the village.

What happened to your dedo is a war crime. Plain and simple.

BTW, I always wondered who that person on your Avatar was. I assumed it was your dad. Can I ask if that's his baby he is holding or a niece or nephew?
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Old 08-15-2018, 05:17 PM   #12
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Horrible, Bill I am really sorry.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:15 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Karposh View Post
Bill, I had no idea about the history behind Kladorabi and how close to home my question has struck for you. I meant no offence whatsoever. And, if you have taken any, then I appologise wholeheartedly. I'm only going off the story's description of Kladorabi descendants in Australia and Greece, which is why I asked for someone who has any insight about this village because there is always a reason why people behave the way they do. My interest on the matter was out of genuine curiosity to know why the hearts of these villagers have been hardened so much, that's all. Without knowing about Kladorabi's past, I was really annoyed to read the story's description of these villagers as die-hard Greeks. Thank you for setting me straight and I'm sure Kladorabi has it's fare share of real Macedonian patriots just like your dedo, who, like you said, was born and died in the village.

What happened to your dedo is a war crime. Plain and simple.

BTW, I always wondered who that person on your Avatar was. I assumed it was your dad. Can I ask if that's his baby he is holding or a niece or nephew?
Firstly.... i wish to apologise for i am about to rave on a bit. The majority probably won't bother to read my post due to the size of it, but i have to as it's soothing to release.

A) Hi Karposh, no need to apologise my good friend and i took no offense whatsoever. if anything i should thank you for bringing it up as it gave me an opportunity to tell my story and release some pain iv'e bottled in.

B) Every Village has its die-hard Greeks some more than others. Kladorabi is not exempt. The stories description posted on this thread is just one side painting a biased picture (admittedly i have not read it so i'm not sure what its about) but i have my own honest insight, through family history and personal experience i can share. On the subject of personal experience..... As i stated earlier, i spent a couple of nights in that village. It was like a ghost town, not many people around any longer and a neglected little village (which is the case for every historically pro-Macedonian villages)

We stayed at this absolute lovely little old ladies house who lived with her quite old never married son who was rarely home. She spoke perfect Macedonian so did her son who we finally met out on the street as we were driving exiting the village. I have video of this lady out in the street grabing my hand and starts singing Macedonian and dancing an oro with me out of the blue. She was lovely enough to walk me through the village and show me my ancestors homes and the remaining hand full of family members. It was so eerie but beautiful. She showed me the house where my Dedo was born, lived and his family had to escape from. It was as if i entered some time warp and i was living those days waiting for them to come out and being introduced. I was woken out of my somewhat trance by a male voice who spoke perfect Macedonian, if not better, just as good as anyone in Bitola. It was the next door neighbor. Very welcoming and a kind lovely bloke. Me being so emotional after being in a momentary trance had to ask this neighbor (which was probably to abrupt of me).... Who was this uncle that played part in my dedo's murder by offering the axe. I was so hungry for information on my family history. He took a step backward and raised his hands saying "ne znam" looking quite uncomfortable. I felt this was quite strange. This is also captured on video. Once i showed this video to the family (brother) of dedo Yani back in Bitola, he instantly recognised this man i questioned, to be the son of this uncle who handed over the axe. Poor man (not his fault for what his father did) probably thought i was there for revenge.

Then i was taken further down the road to this small little but picturesque property, that belonged to a family member of mine. The old lady and now this neighbor showing us the village knocked on the door, and out came a tall but old an frail lady around the age of 90. I will never forget the first words i heard her speak "ti se molam ne moj da mi go zemite kujkata, sama sum stara zena". Till this day it still hurts me. I don't know why she reacted the way she did. Once we were introduced to her, as who we were.... she felt more at ease as she realised we were not there for any sinister reason.

Why i'm telling you all this? though its not clear evidence, but you can make a strong case that when a person naturally speaks their mother tongue, is a indication of where their heart leans to ethnicity.

C) That baby in the picture, is the brother of Dedo Yani. The brother that lives in Bitola who i have shown the video of Kladorabi to since he has never visited his place of birth.


Oh and for war crime? Information i received of the highly likely place he is buried is in a mass grave in Lerin. Instructions given to me were something about a second or third exit in a big roundabout as you enter Lerin center from Bitola. You would have to drive a few miles and you will come across a populated area but one strange empty large prime piece of land where no one dares to build on it. Locals would tell you that its a site of mass graves and being superstitious fear building on it. But who would care enough or have interest to investigate?
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:18 PM   #14
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Lest we forget Bill.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:23 PM   #15
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Pretty powerful stuff, thanks for sharing Bill. My condelences as well.

I do recommend you read the story when you get the chance but also read what I said after how the names and village of origin were changed to protect privacy, so it isn't actually talking about Kladorabi.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:44 PM   #16
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Pretty powerful stuff, thanks for sharing Bill. My condelences as well.

I do recommend you read the story when you get the chance but also read what I said after how the names and village of origin were changed to protect privacy, so it isn't actually talking about Kladorabi.
I will LOM and i didn't mean to be disrespectful to your post/thread its just me being lazy.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:50 PM   #17
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Please do rave on, and don't make silly apologies. These are the stories that all Macedonians should share, because now your story is our collective story. Now when I talk about Greek oppression, I can say I know a direct descendant of Greek brutality. Your tragedy is my tragedy, your loss is my loss. These types of sad stories should serve as a chilling reminder that as Macedonians, our struggle should transcend petty politics and squabbles. There was a time when they murdered us for who we were, and we can not let that be forgotten.

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Firstly.... i wish to apologise for i am about to rave on a bit. The majority probably won't bother to read my post due to the size of it, but i have to as it's soothing to release.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:56 PM   #18
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I will LOM and i didn't mean to be disrespectful to your post/thread its just me being lazy.
None taken mate, just didn't want you believing it was actually about your village.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:57 PM   #19
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And to share a little story about this hospitable old lady from Kladorabi. Her deceased husband was a gentle quiet family orientated man. He was often beaten savagely by the Partizans for not helping them out. The beatings were so severe that he ended up with a broken back for the rest of his life. It not that he wasn't sympathetic with the Partizan cause, he feared any involvement would be detrimental to his family if the Greek forced found out. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Remarkably his old lady dosen't hold any grudges though.

Apparently, the Kladorabi who joined the Partizans would hide in the woods during the day and enter the village at night to pick up food supplies which was expected from the villagers. Its how my dedo was caught. Was given the green light by a traitor one night to come and collect and walked into awaiting Greek army.

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None taken mate, just didn't want you believing it was actually about your village.
Got it
I was just responding to Karposh mentioning Kladorabia thinking it had something to do with it. Iv'e spoken about this story a while ago and the simple mention of Kladorabi triggered something in me this time, that i never knew existed. Mabe subconsciously it effects me more than i thought with this ROM surrendering saga and the thinking now in hindsight, what a waist of life and suffering my ancestors went through.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:27 PM   #20
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LOM.... i just read your post and thanks for creating this thread.
I get the names and birthplaces were altered .... but coincidently they used Kladorabi and after reading the first page of the article or book you supplied where it states Ted's family home was confiscated ......



Its made me think about the story i just shared of that 90-year-old relative first reaction first words "Please don't take my house".....And the confusion i had till this day as to why she reacted that way, now it makes sense and I'm convinced she has suffered these threats at some stage of her life.
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