Who were the Sons of Javan?

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  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    #16
    i can see how everything has aslant on it a greek slant.The flood was around 4389 bc that's much earlier than the greeks arrived around 3000 bc on the greek peninsular.The only people around would be really Macedonians,pelasgians,The hellenes came around 2800 bc,Thats when the greeks got ther alphabet.So there would have been Minoans,pelasgians mycinians.So putting on the greek identity when the greeks weren't even around.There certainly been Macedonians called kittim around.ot the Cyprus you mentioned.They say that cypress and the surrounds might have been the atlantis that so much been written.4389 bc the greeks were not around as achaens or hellenes coming 1500 years after the flood.The timeline would have solved your problem Also looking at the ancient maps will show kittim Macedonia not Cyprus as the location.If Macedonians look like they been around for eeons before the greeks so Macedonia can trace herself past prehistoric times even before the noahs flood.Con I bet you never considered this you are still wrong.I just proved to you Macedonians were pre flood as to what they been called??After the flood kittim???you don't know for sure.
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

    Comment

    • Constellation
      Member
      • Jul 2014
      • 217

      #17
      Originally posted by George S. View Post
      i can see how everything has aslant on it a greek slant.The flood was around 4389 bc that's much earlier than the greeks arrived around 3000 bc on the greek peninsular.The only people around would be really Macedonians,pelasgians,The hellenes came around 2800 bc,Thats when the greeks got ther alphabet.So there would have been Minoans,pelasgians mycinians.So putting on the greek identity when the greeks weren't even around.There certainly been Macedonians called kittim around.ot the Cyprus you mentioned.They say that cypress and the surrounds might have been the atlantis that so much been written.4389 bc the greeks were not around as achaens or hellenes coming 1500 years after the flood.The timeline would have solved your problem Also looking at the ancient maps will show kittim Macedonia not Cyprus as the location.If Macedonians look like they been around for eeons before the greeks so Macedonia can trace herself past prehistoric times even before the noahs flood.Con I bet you never considered this you are still wrong.I just proved to you Macedonians were pre flood as to what they been called??After the flood kittim???you don't know for sure.
      Thank you George.

      The problem is that all the pre-flood people were wiped out.
      Last edited by Constellation; 09-07-2014, 06:28 AM.

      Comment

      • George S.
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 10116

        #18

        Bible History Images and Resources for Biblical History. Resources, Free Bible Software, Bible Art, Biblical History Topics and Study, and ancient Bible maps of Rome, Greece, and ancient Near East.

        there are two maps when i find the one i will put it up ok.
        Last edited by George S.; 07-30-2014, 01:27 AM.
        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
        GOTSE DELCEV

        Comment

        • Constellation
          Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 217

          #19
          Originally posted by George S. View Post
          http://www.freemaninstitute.com/RTGham.htm
          Bible History Images and Resources for Biblical History. Resources, Free Bible Software, Bible Art, Biblical History Topics and Study, and ancient Bible maps of Rome, Greece, and ancient Near East.

          there are two maps when i find the one i will put it up ok.
          The links are no good.

          The immediate descendants of Japheth were seven in number, and are represented by the nations designated Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Mesech, and Tiras; or, roughly, the Armenians, Lydians, Medes, Greeks, Tibarenians, and Moschians, the last, Tiras, remaining still obscure. The sons of Gomer (Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah) were all settled in the West Asian tract; while the sons of Javan (Elisah, Tarshish, Kittim and Dodanim or Rodanim) occupied the Mediterranean coast and the adjacent islands.
          The author identifies "Javan" as "Greek".

          And

          4. Seven Sons of Japheth (see map below):
          1. Javan (Greece, Romans, Romance -- French, Italians, Spanish, Portuguese)
          2. Magog (Scythians, Slavs, Russians, Bulgarians, Bohemians, Poles, Slovaks, Croatians)
          George, you have to understand that in Western Civilization, including all Bible commentaries, the ancient Macedonians were part of the Hellenic world (Javan).
          Last edited by Constellation; 09-07-2014, 06:31 AM.

          Comment

          • Bill77
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2009
            • 4545

            #20
            Originally posted by Constellation View Post
            George, you have to understand that in Western Civilization, including all Bible commentaries, the ancient Macedonians were part of the Hellenic world (Javan)
            What do you mean by "Part of the Hellenic world"?

            And point out where in the Bible it suggests anything of the sort.
            http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

            Comment

            • Constellation
              Member
              • Jul 2014
              • 217

              #21
              Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
              What do you mean by "Part of the Hellenic world"?

              And point out where in the Bible it suggests anything of the sort.
              I did not say in the Bible it states that. I said Bible commentaries, which means the writings of human interpreters of the Bible.
              Last edited by Constellation; 09-07-2014, 06:32 AM.

              Comment

              • Bill77
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2009
                • 4545

                #22
                Before I spend time answering your question. I have one question to ask you which is important, and you will understand why later.

                Do you believe in God and that the Bible is the word of God?
                Give me your honest answer.
                http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                Comment

                • Constellation
                  Member
                  • Jul 2014
                  • 217

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
                  Before I spend time answering your question. I have one question to ask you which is important, and you will understand why later.

                  Do you believe in God and that the Bible is the word of God?
                  Give me your honest answer.
                  Yes, I believe in God. And yes I believe the Bible is the Word of God.

                  Comment

                  • DraganOfStip
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2011
                    • 1253

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Constellation View Post
                    I believe the Bible is the Word of God.
                    The Ten Commandments were "written" by God.
                    However,God did not just take pen and paper and wrote what you read in today's Bible.The Bible was written by many people and there were also many texts that also aren't included in what we know as today's Bible (the Gnostic gospels etc.)
                    The Old Testament and the New Testament are only a small part of texts about Christianity,they're the texts that the church approves.
                    ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                    ― George Orwell

                    Comment

                    • MKD Hockey
                      Junior Member
                      • Jun 2013
                      • 30

                      #25
                      Во најпознатите преводи на библиската старозаветна Книга на пророкот Даниел, вештачки е уфрлен зборот „Грција“, иако според оригиналниот текст на старохебрејски требало да стои – Македонија!

                      Comment

                      • Bill77
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 4545

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Constellation View Post
                        Yes, I believe in God. And yes I believe the Bible is the Word of God.
                        Thank you for your response.

                        Why was my question important? If I am to put some time in researching and composing a response to your questions, I needed to know you believed the scriptures to be historically accurate. After all, I also will be using scripture to show some of the misconceptions. Inparticular relating to the matter you have brought up. I am not claiming I know it all, but I want to show you if you take a little time researching with an open mind and apply some common sense, it's not really hard to make sense of it.
                        I've came across to many hypocrites who on one hand deny God exists but on the other, pick parts of the bible that might suit their argument and swear by it. You can't have it both ways.

                        And to be honest with you.......I have reservations on how genuine you are. I don't believe you consider the bible to be the word of God. Therefore normally you would disregard everything in it, but if there is anything of value that would suit your argument.......you would not hesitate to use it.

                        Also I think you are cunning. I don't bye the concern you portray to show, after posts and threads you create. What I mean is, you post what seems to be anti Macedonian arguments (which I think is your main objective) but then come across as frustrated and respond to the negativity (try to mask your true intention) The subjects on these posts of yours have been put across many many times by certain people who have political agendas and try to deny our (Macedonian) existence.

                        But that's ok, it won't effect the outcome of my thoughts on this threads subject. I will play along and be honest with my thoughts.

                        I'll be back shortly with the reply to your subject "Who were the sons of Javan"
                        Last edited by Bill77; 07-31-2014, 10:13 AM.
                        http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                        Comment

                        • Vangelovski
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 8531

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
                          I want to show you if you take a little time researching with an open mind and apply some common sense, it's not really hard to make sense of it.
                          I've came across to many hypocrites who on one hand deny God exists but on the other, pick parts of the bible that might suit their argument and swear by it. You can't have it both ways.
                          Such sweet words...rarely are they written...so as not to offend. Bill77, you've inspired me to read up on Javan (something I've never really looked into). I look forward to your post.
                          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                          Comment

                          • Constellation
                            Member
                            • Jul 2014
                            • 217

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                            Such sweet words...rarely are they written...so as not to offend. Bill77, you've inspired me to read up on Javan (something I've never really looked into). I look forward to your post.
                            Now I find that to be an astonishing statement. Here is a Macedonian, an administrator of a Macedonian forum, and a devout believer, and you have never thought of exploring the ancient Macedonians from a biblical perspective? You have never looked at Javan? How can this be?

                            Comment

                            • Vangelovski
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 8531

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Constellation View Post
                              Now I find that to be an astonishing statement. Here is a Macedonian, an administrator of a Macedonian forum, and a devout believer, and you have never thought of exploring the ancient Macedonians from a biblical perspective? You have never looked at Javan? How can this be?
                              I've only given it a very cursory look. But I agree, it is astonishing...I really don't have an answer for it other than I've just never gotten around to it.
                              If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                              The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                              Comment

                              • Constellation
                                Member
                                • Jul 2014
                                • 217

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
                                Thank you for your response.

                                Why was my question important? If I am to put some time in researching and composing a response to your questions, I needed to know you believed the scriptures to be historically accurate. After all, I also will be using scripture to show some of the misconceptions. Inparticular relating to the matter you have brought up. I am not claiming I know it all, but I want to show you if you take a little time researching with an open mind and apply some common sense, it's not really hard to make sense of it.
                                I've came across to many hypocrites who on one hand deny God exists but on the other, pick parts of the bible that might suit their argument and swear by it. You can't have it both ways.

                                And to be honest with you.......I have reservations on how genuine you are. I don't believe you consider the bible to be the word of God. Therefore normally you would disregard everything in it, but if there is anything of value that would suit your argument.......you would not hesitate to use it.

                                Also I think you are cunning. I don't bye the concern you portray to show, after posts and threads you create. What I mean is, you post what seems to be anti Macedonian arguments (which I think is your main objective) but then come across as frustrated and respond to the negativity (try to mask your true intention) The subjects on these posts of yours have been put across many many times by certain people who have political agendas and try to deny our (Macedonian) existence.

                                But that's ok, it won't effect the outcome of my thoughts on this threads subject. I will play along and be honest with my thoughts.

                                I'll be back shortly with the reply to your subject "Who were the sons of Javan"
                                Bill, from someone I am assuming is a believer of the Bible, I find it astonishing that you could ask me a question, and then use my answer to attack me. You know nothing about me, and you have construed all my threads to be anti-Macedonian. It does not appear you have exercised a godly judgment. Your judgment is wrong.
                                Last edited by Constellation; 09-07-2014, 06:33 AM.

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