Russia, Conservatism & Orthodoxy

[Karposh]

Yes, because god must be really proud of people being thrown off of buildings for voicing an opinion. He also loves alcoholism and divorce. That is why god has blessed Russians with one of the lowest average life spans in the world, because he loves Russians so much that he just wants them closer. As long as the they repress the gays though, that's all that really makes a good Christian I suppose.

That's one way to look at it. The other would be that people are now preferring to turn to their faith rather than that bottle of Vodka as a way of coping with life's problems which include family/marital breakdowns, unemployment and anything else that you want to blame God for.

[Karposh]

How Christian or brotherly is it of the Russian Orthodox Church not to recognize the Macedonian Orthodox Church as independent?

That's a separate matter altogether. We can't even recognise ourselves and you expect others to recognise us or our church?

[Phoenix]

Yes, because god must be really proud of people being thrown off of buildings for voicing an opinion. He also loves alcoholism and divorce. That is why god has blessed Russians with one of the lowest average life spans in the world, because he loves Russians so much that he just wants them closer. As long as the they repress the gays though, that's all that really makes a good Christian I suppose.

All of that could also be levelled at the god fearing folk of the good ol' U S of A...

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door....so I can exploit them by paying them $7.25 per hour.

[vicsinad]

That's a separate matter altogether. We can't even recognise ourselves and you expect others to recognise us or our church?

It's not separate. Our church has been advocating for recognition for 50 years. The ROC has continually refused to proceed down a principled path on the matter.

[vicsinad]

All of that could also be levelled at the god fearing folk of the good ol' U S of A...

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door....so I can exploit them by paying them $7.25 per hour.

It should be possible to analyze the situation in Russia in isolation from the situation in other countries.

But to counter your point: only about a dozen states in the US have a minimum wage that low. Just about as money have a minimum wage over $10.50. And most of the undocumented/illegal immigrants here do get paid above the minimum wage without having to pay taxes. And for some reason, those that do come and make very little, still end up staying here instead of going back to where they come from.

So, yes: wages can and should improve. But their low wages are generally not forcing them to go back where they came from.

[Gocka]

I don't claim that there is a resurgence of the Christian faith in the USA. I am not thanking god for the good old god fearing Americans.

And yes the minimum wage is far too low in the USA given the standard of living. I am not under some illusion that the USA or any other place on earth for that matter is perfect. Far from it. I could go on for days about what parts of American culture I despise. Its not a bad place to live though. Neither is Australia, and pretty much any country in the "west". Like I said before, none of us would rather live in Russia under Putin. So why feign this love for him and Russia. I believe the only reason any one likes him is because he is a constant thorn in the side to the rest of the powers in the world. The same reason everyone wanted France to lose the world cup. Everyone wants the underdog to finally pop Goliath in the nose.

The part I don't get is how can you essentially root against the system in which you currently partake and I can only assume are doing well under. I find it hard to believe that anyone would rather live in a world that looked and functioned like Russia, vs what you all affectionately refer to as western society.

Most of us would probably be dead if we lived in Russia because of the way we talk about leaders ad governments.

RTG of course would be an Oligarch, of course.

All of that could also be levelled at the god fearing folk of the good ol' U S of A...

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door....so I can exploit them by paying them $7.25 per hour.

[Karposh]

It's not separate. Our church has been advocating for recognition for 50 years. The ROC has continually refused to proceed down a principled path on the matter.

What do you care for anyway Vic? As far as I know you don't even believe in God.

[Phoenix]

...The part I don't get is how can you essentially root against the system in which you currently partake and I can only assume are doing well under. I find it hard to believe that anyone would rather live in a world that looked and functioned like Russia, vs what you all affectionately refer to as western society.

Most of us would probably be dead if we lived in Russia because of the way we talk about leaders ad governments...

I think it's too easy to be conditioned into believing that Russians are evil people, that Putin is evil and that the Russians are behind every effort to destabilise the West...blah, blah, blah...it's been going on for decades, we're supposed to believe this narrative without question...and that the Western way is the ideal...I think it's all crap...the American and entire western system is every bit as corrupt as the Russians are and like everything else, the truth is somewhere in the middle...

The way I look at it...it's the Americans and their 'Western' partners that have been waging wars and enforcing regime change across the globe for decades, they have far more blood on their hands than the Russians do...and yet the West continues to demonise the Russians...and their system.

[vicsinad]

What do you care for anyway Vic? As far as I know you don't even believe in God.

I don't. But that has nothing to do with how the ROC treats the MOC.

[Risto the Great]

RTG of course would be an Oligarch, of course.

Until the compromising pictures come out.

[Risto the Great]

What do you care for anyway Vic? As far as I know you don't even believe in God.

Sadly, the main religion of Macedonians is associated with our national identity. Anyone who fails to acknowledge our church basically fails to acknowledge us in a meaningful way.

[Gocka]

Bingo!

Sadly, the main religion of Macedonians is associated with our national identity. Anyone who fails to acknowledge our church basically fails to acknowledge us in a meaningful way.

What do you care for anyway Vic? As far as I know you don't even believe in God.

Kind of a cheap response. Whether he believes in god or not is irrelevant. Like RTG said above, the church is an integral part of our culture and identity. Besides churches and god are totally different concepts if you ask me. I consider the church, any church of any Christian faith, one of the last places to find god. The Orthodox faith is steeped in dogma, much of which is in direct opposition to the bible. Most of our church customs are pagan, we worship saints and icons, a big no no in the bible. Belief in god is about more than bashing gays and transvestites.

[Gocka]

LMAO, one I will corner you and leave you unable to respond, ONE DAY!

Until the compromising pictures come out.

[Gocka]

I think it's too easy to be conditioned into believing that Russians are evil people, that Putin is evil and that the Russians are behind every effort to destabilise the West...blah, blah, blah...it's been going on for decades, we're supposed to believe this narrative without question...and that the Western way is the ideal...I think it's all crap...the American and entire western system is every bit as corrupt as the Russians are and like everything else, the truth is somewhere in the middle...

The way I look at it...it's the Americans and their 'Western' partners that have been waging wars and enforcing regime change across the globe for decades, they have far more blood on their hands than the Russians do...and yet the West continues to demonise the Russians...and their system.

Ok, that's a point of view, you are entitled to it. Its subjective from both points of you. We are both judging form a far.

The only think I really want to know that no one has answered yet is: Would you rather live in Russia over Australia, given Australia is part of the west, and Russia is not?

[Phoenix]

...The only think I really want to know that no one has answered yet is: Would you rather live in Russia over Australia, given Australia is part of the west, and Russia is not?

...It's not an easy question to answer definitively, there's millions of variables at play that would make one country more preferable than the other.

You're still in denial about the role of the USA and her western partners in the orchestrated effort to undermine Russian prosperity since WWII.

It's actually OK to criticise US foreign policy Gocka...you blow so much sunshine up the US system that you could easily be mistaken for a UMD representative...