Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[VMRO]

I don't think we'll be that lucky. I think Zwev would accept anything, even a name without Macedonia in it.

The problem also is the Greek government is not listening to their people either and they don't care about anything their people have to say.

[Stojacanec]

What I've found amusing in the last week or so is that Greek Officials have asked the Pan Macedonian Society of Victoria to "bud out" and stop protesting against the Macedonian Issue.

Its weird. these people don't know whether they're coming or going.

This pales into insignificance however when you get cockroaches like Zaev negotiating our name freely with the very people that want to see the Macedonian identity extinguished.

[Phoenix]

What I've found amusing in the last week or so is that Greek Officials have asked the Pan Macedonian Society of Victoria to "bud out" and stop protesting against the Macedonian Issue.

I can't imagine them putting that genie back into the bottle...

The greeks have spent a fortune whipping up the prosfygi and grkomani into a crazed frenzy over this issue, how do you now silence those zombie fucks without giving the game away...they'd look pretty fuckin' stupid if all of a sudden they had no problem...like others on this forum, I'm putting my faith in those deluded motherfuckers to scuttle any compromise solution...

[Stojacanec]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/02/20/17-turks-reach-greek-island-to-apply-for-asylum-in-greece.html

17 new future protesters in Greece against the Macedonian issue.

[Philosopher]

I don't think we'll be that lucky. I think Zwev would accept anything, even a name without Macedonia in it.

I fear you may be right. Our greatest enemy has always been those within.

[Vangelovski]

I fear you may be right. Our greatest enemy has always been those within.

The only people that can stop this now are the Macedonians in Macedonia. But I don't think there are enough of them left. Too many have converted to fyromism.

[Tomche Makedonche]

https://www.politico.eu/article/greek-opposition-leader-demands-hard-concessions-for-macedonia-deal-rename-constitution/

Greek opposition leader demands hard concessions for Macedonia deal

Skopje must agree to change constitution to open path to EU and NATO, Kyriakos Mitsotakis says.

MUNICH — Greece should only accept a deal to rename the Republic of Macedonia as part of a broad agreement that would also compel Skopje to change its constitution and disavow irredentist claims, the leader of Greece’s largest opposition party said.

Athens is under pressure from Western allies to resolve a long-running dispute with Skopje over the name Macedonia, which is also a region in northern Greece that has been closely intertwined with Greek culture and identity for thousands of years. Those tensions have forced Skopje to use the name Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia internationally and blocked any chance for the Balkan country to join either the EU or NATO.

“It has to be a package deal,” Kyriakos Mitsotakis, the leader of Greece’s center-right New Democracy party, told POLITICO in an interview. “All issues have to be resolved simultaneously. This isn’t just about a name, it’s about irredentism, it’s about changing the school books … at the end of the day it’s about changing their constitution to make sure that whatever is agreed is reflected in a constitutional change.”

Western leaders support efforts by Macedonia’s new government, which came to power last year, to resolve the dispute and build closer ties with the EU and NATO. But feelings about the issue run high among many Greeks, who believe the name Macedonia implies a territorial claim on parts of their country. Tens of thousands of people demonstrated in Athens this month against their northern neighbor using the name.

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has been trying to forge a compromise with Macedonia’s new leadership to resolve the issue.

Though in opposition, Mitsotakis has an important voice in the debate because it is unlikely Tsipras, who leads the left-wing Syriza party, could muster the necessary support for a deal in parliament without New Democracy’s backing. Syriza’s junior coalition partner, the nationalist Independent Greeks, have refused to support any solution that includes the word “Macedonia.”

Mitsotakis insisted such deliberations could only begin once Skopje agreed to New Democracy’s conditions.

“If they’re not willing to change their constitution now, we as a party are not going to start a discussion,” he said in an interview at the Munich Security Conference over the weekend.

Mitsotakis accused Tsipras of endangering the talks with the Skopje government by not taking steps to build a national consensus.

The Macedonia talks come as Greece, still reeling from its economic crisis, faces renewed tensions with Turkey in the Aegean over the sea border between the two countries. Earlier this month, Greek and Turkish coast guard vessels collided near a group of small, uninhabited islands that both sides claim.

Both countries blamed the other for the incident. Mitsotakis called on the EU and NATO to back Greece and help mediate the dispute.

“There’s reason to be extremely concerned,” he said. “There’s been a significant increase in tension over the past year. Turkey is disputing Greek territory and has done so over the past 20 years, but it’s doing so now in a much more aggressive manner. We need to be firm.”

[Amphipolis]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/02...in-greece.html

17 new future protesters in Greece against the Macedonian issue.

We shouldn't make fun at them, because the Turkish asylum seekers (they may have reached 1000 by now) are the only REAL asylum seekers among more than 2 million illegal immigrants that passed through Greece in the last 5 years.

Actually, their deaths are the only ones I find really dramatic. A month ago a couple of teachers (husband and wife) and their four young children drowned; last week another family of teachers.

The boat mentioned above was mostly families of civil servants and judges!!!

[Stojacanec]

We shouldn't make fun at them, because the Turkish asylum seekers (they may have reached 1000 by now) are the only REAL asylum seekers among more than 2 million illegal immigrants that passed through Greece in the last 5 years.

Actually, their deaths are the only ones I find really dramatic. A month ago a couple of teachers (husband and wife) and their four young children drowned; last week another family of teachers.

The boat mentioned above was mostly families of civil servants and judges!!!

I wasn't making fun of the asylum seekers, just trying to point out Greece's multiculturalism.

I am not sure how you digressed to drownings etc since it doesn't relate to the article.

Macedonia had to endure a lot of the asylum seekers you mention. Not a laughing matter just very sad.

[Amphipolis]

I wasn't making fun of the asylum seekers, just trying to point out Greece's multiculturalism.

I am not sure how you digressed to drownings etc since it doesn't relate to the article.

Macedonia had to endure a lot of the asylum seekers you mention. Not a laughing matter just very sad.

On the contrary, I think "those" asylum seekers (the fake ones) ARE a laughing matter. Macedonia, our side of the borders, DID endure some problems; the railways at Idomeni stopped functioning for a month (?) but that is all over now. I DO get the joke about multiculturalism, and we still have an unclear number of those "multiculturals".

What pisses me off is that this gigantic wave of impostors (in percentages of 99% or rather 99,9% or rather higher than 99,9%) makes you forget there are REAL asylum seekers (GASP), people that DO deserve a refuge, people that you should feel sorry for and deserve every help. The laws that were hugely abused in the recent years DID have a real meaning and scope and here it is.

[Phoenix]

On the contrary, I think "those" asylum seekers (the fake ones) ARE a laughing matter. Macedonia, our side of the borders, DID endure some problems; the railways at Idomeni stopped functioning for a month (?) but that is all over now. I DO get the joke about multiculturalism, and we still have an unclear number of those "multiculturals".

What pisses me off is that this gigantic wave of impostors (in percentages of 99% or rather 99,9% or rather higher than 99,9%) makes you forget there are REAL asylum seekers (GASP), people that DO deserve a refuge, people that you should feel sorry for and deserve every help. The laws that were hugely abused in the recent years DID have a real meaning and scope and here it is.

What pisses me off is the gigantic wave of imposters as well (the ones that you call 'Macedonian' today that were very similar to the 99.9% that you complain about today...you're a fuckin disgusting human being...hypocrite is probably your best quality.

You turn a blind eye toward the resettlement of hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Turks on Macedonian lands at the expense, the displacement, incarceration and murder of the indigenous Macedonian population but somehow the suffering of another wave of humanity disagrees with you...

[Tomche Makedonche]

What pisses me off is the gigantic wave of imposters as well (the ones that you call 'Macedonian' today that were very similar to the 99.9% that you complain about today...you're a fuckin disgusting human being...hypocrite is probably your best quality.

You turn a blind eye toward the resettlement of hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Turks on Macedonian lands at the expense, the displacement, incarceration and murder of the indigenous Macedonian population but somehow the suffering of another wave of humanity disagrees with you...

Precisely, and the saddest part is even after being confronted with this fact, he will continue to remain ignorantly proud of his racist hypocrisy.

[Tomche Makedonche]

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/erdogan-pushes-macedonia-to-suppress-gulenist-terrorists--02-21-2018

Erdogan Pushes Macedonia to Suppress ‘Gulenist Terrorists’

Macedonia’s President has visited Ankara seeking support over its dispute with Greece – but met new demands to act against the Turkish President’s foes in Macedonia

As Macedonia’s President Gjorge Ivanov paid an official visit to Turkey, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, reminded Macedonia that Ankara expected it to cooperate more in the fight against Erdogan’s foes among supporters of the exiled cleric Fetullah Gulen.

“We want to see Macedonia take precautions against FETO members and institutions,” Erdogan said on February 20, using an acronym for what Ankara has dubbed the “Fethullah Terrorist Organisation”, referring to the network of US-based Muslim cleric Fethullah Gulen.

“We will cleanse the Balkans of FETO with the help of our friends.”

Ivanov also addressed FETO as a terrorist group stating that Macedonia is “aware of what evil has been inflicted on Turkey by terrorist organisations, especially by the Fethullah Terrorist Organisation – FETO”.

“We expressed support for all the legitimately elected institutions in Turkey.

“It is Turkey’s sovereign right to protect its citizens and its borders from all forms of terrorism… We have agreed that our security officials and intelligence institutions will cooperate more in the regard to terrorism,” Ivanov added.

Ankara claims that Fethullah Gulen, a former ally of Erdogan’s who now lives in exile in the US, was behind the failed July 2016 coup attempt in Turkey.

Gulen himself insists he had nothing to do with the attempted coup and has asked an international commission to investigate the failed coup.

That has not stopped Ankara from arresting more than 60,000 alleged “Gulenists” in Turkey, closing schools, colleges, NGOs, companies and media outlets linked to him and demanding that foreign governments do the same.

Turkish officials have pressured Macedonia and other states in the Balkan region to suppress Gulen-linked NGOs, colleges, companies and the media and hand over alleged Gulen movement members.

Ivanov, however, visited Ankara to seek Turkish support in the country’s dispute with its neighbour Greece over its name, which Athens disputes.

Erdogan told a joint press conference that Ivanov’s visit was a reminder of old bonds and ties between the two countries.

“The ‘name’ dispute is crucial for Macedonia’s Euro-Atlantic integration. Turkey was the first country to recognize the country under its constitutional name [Republic of Macedonia]. We will maintain our position; we have no hesitation in our policy,” Erdogan said.

“If we make a decision in our foreign policy we never change it; we die but we do not change!” he added.

“The Republic of Macedonia and Turkey have a traditional friendship. Our frequent meetings are a sign of mutual trust, cooperation and friendship,” Macedonia’s Ivanov echoed, thanking Turkey for its support for the country’s bid to join NATO – held up by the name dispute with Athens.

He also thanked the Turkish Army for its aid and support for the Macedonian Army and defined Ankara as Skopje’s strategic partner.

Erdogan said that bilateral relations had been discussed at the meeting and that the trade volume between two the countries could increase.

“Our perfect political relations should be an example for the economic relations and Turkish investments are expected to increase in several sectors,” Ivanov added

[Tomche Makedonche]

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/merkel-macedonia-greece-closer-than-ever-to-name-solution-02-21-2018

Merkel Hails Progress in Greece-Macedonia 'Name' Talks

Macedonia and Greece are closer than at any time in the past decade to a compromise in their ‘name’ dispute, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Wednesday, hosting a visit by Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said she was pleased by the recent progress in the talks between Macedonia and Greece over Macedonia's name, which – if they end successfully – will expedite Macedonia’s ambitions to join NATO and EU.

"I am very pleased and relieved that ... there is movement in the talks," Merkel said at a joint press conference in Berlin with Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev.

"In the last ten years, the solution has not been as close as it is now. It would be wonderful if the remaining difficulties can be bridged," she added.

Merkel remarked that for Germany to take sides regarding this difficult issue would not be of much help.

She said it would take the form of a “diplomatic art” for compromise to be reached, adding that this will not be possible through press conferences but only if both sides work diligently “behind closed doors”.

Asked to specify when Macedonia might expect an invitation to join the EU and NATO, Merkel said it was not a matter of time but of the speed at which the country, as well as the entire Western Balkans, fulfilled certain reforms.

It was Zaev’s first official visit to Berlin since his centre-left government took power last May after a prolonged and turbulent political crisis.

“Our wish is to give Europe a new kind of Balkans,” Zaev said, thanking his host for Germany's support in strengthening political and economic ties with and between the Balkan countries.

Zaev’s visit to Berlin, which focused on the "name" dispute and other issues, has been in the focus of the Greek media as well.

One day before meeting Zaev, Merkel’s office confirmed that she had held a telephone conversation with Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, and that, among other things, the two had exchanged opinions on the efforts to overcome the dispute between Skopje and Athens.

The dispute centres on Greece's insistence that use of the word Macedonia implies a territorial claim to the northern Greek province of the same name.

Athens insists that a new name must be found that makes a clear distinction between the Greek province and the country.

As a result of the unresolved dispute, in 2008, Greece blocked Macedonia’s NATO membership. It has also blocked the start of Macedonia’s EU accession talks, despite several positive annual reports from the European Commission on the country’s progress

[Solun]

Precisely, and the saddest part is even after being confronted with this fact, he will continue to remain ignorantly proud of his racist hypocrisy.

We have to remember this is an individual who turns on the tv each day and gets to listen to politicians who tell him they are protecting an ancient legacy. They are a part of a 'national myth' unlike any other seen in Europe. 90% of those in Solun today are from Turkey but if you ask them they will tell you they are descended from Ancient Macedonians because that is what they are taught.

Imagine if everyone in Greece had the native language of their grandparents investigated? You'd then be asking yourself how many 'Greeks' you have remaining as a minority.