NATO Doors Remain Closed to Macedonia

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Just for info, to add idiocy to lunacy, the ICJ did not actually rule that Greece should not veto Macedonia again. They ruled that Greece "violated" the Interim Accord, thereby recognising the Interim Accord as "valid" as per Macedonia's (or FYROM's - according to official documents) request.

The interim agreement is now a permanent fixture in the Macedonian identity. That is why the Macedonian identity is at its worst point in modern history.

Where are the idiots who celebrated the ICJ case?

So many smart Macedonians. Give me the dumb ones who just want Macedonia to be called Macedonia. Macedonia needs more "dumb" people. There always seem to be unwelcome consequences for being too clever.

[United MKD]

Груевски: Таква дволичност од некои НАТО земји одамна немам видено

Не знам со кое лице ни се обраќаат одредени претставници на некои водечки земји членки на НАТО, или пак со кое лице не оговараат по кулоарите дека сме пропуштиле некаква шанса со Папандреу... Таква дволичност, таква политика на двојни стандарди, таква непринципиелност и оддалечување од вредностите за кои јавно се залагаат, одамна како преседан го немам забележано, како што е во случајот со Македонија.

Ова го вели премиерот Никола Груевски во дел од интервју што го објави МИА, а во кое зборува за самитот на НАТО во Чикаго, за неговото неприсуство таму, за досегашните напори за зачленување на земјата во Алијансата и за, како што вели, двојните стандарди на дипломатите од некои НАТО-земји.

Алијансата има проболем, не Македонија

- Присуство во Чикаго ќе има од наша страна и тоа многу високо. Повисоко отколку што според мене е нормално, во едни вакви околности, кога на некоја земја и се прави таква неправда, една таква непринципиелност и очигледна политика на двоен стандард, и згора на се, истовремено и се кажува дека треба да се чуствува виновна заради тоа, и да има разбирање кон оној кој ја прави неправдата и да глуми одговорност и достоинство. Пазете ве молам, а не говорат за нивната одговорност и достоинство? Затоа што ова веќе не е само проблем на Македонија, очигледно е проблем и на Алијансата и тоа многу поголем отколку само формален. Ова е суштински проблем, од политичка, морална и меѓународно правна природа, во смисла владеење на право, и НАТО нема одговор за ова. Оттука, не е ова прашање само на Македонија и Грција, туку веќе е прашање и на НАТО - вели премиерот.

Според Груевски, немало потреба ниту претседателот Ѓорге Иванов, ниту пак министерот Никола Попоски да заминат во Чикаго, со оглед дека се добиени јасни знаци дека Македонија нема да добие покана за членство.

Да бев на местото на претседателот немаше да отидам во Чикаго

- Јас, лично, да бев на местото на Претседателот немаше да отидам, а не сум сигурен дали и министерот требаше да биде таму во услови на едно такво игнорирање од НАТО во овој изминат период. Можеби неговиот заменик ќе беше реално наше присуство наспроти очигледната незаинтересираност на најмоќните земји на НАТО кон Македонија, и очигледната нивна заинтересираност по секоја цена да и бидат на услуга на Грција, превземајќи товар, ако воопшто го чуствуваат како товар, на крајно непринципиелно и некоректно однесување кон земја за чие членство ја малтретираат со години, а секогаш ја канат кога им треба, дали тоа е во моменти кога им треба за логистичка база како што беше при интервенцијата во 1999 година кон Србија, или кога требаше да бидеме во Авганистан, во Ирак, и други настани каде им требаат сојузници, им треба нашата војска, нашето присуство, нашето знаме, нашата одлучност - категоричен е премиерот Груевски.

http://www.dnevnik.mk/default.asp?It...DF1DE9354FF628

[Soldier of Macedon]

He will still be kissing NATO's arse tomorrow.

[Niko777]

President Ivanov has met with the Albanian Community of Chicago!

http://www.plusinfo.mk/vest/43484/Iv...ica-vo-Chikago

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Well, I for one am not shocked by ANYTHING the government(s) of Macedonia does or says because the choice is not theirs to make .. NEVER HAS BEEN OR WILL BE! Q. HOW, MUCH DID THE UMD PAY THE PRESIDENT LAST NIGHT?

[Vangelovski]

Don't worry, Ivanov will be meeting with UMD to "balance" things.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Don't worry, Ivanov will be meeting with UMD to "balance" things.

UMD, will be in for a major shock in the not to near future.

[lavce pelagonski]

Greek President, party leaders agree veto for Macedonia at NATO Summit in Chicago

18. May 2012. | 08:11

Source: Emg.rs, MIA

http://www.emg.rs/en/news/region/179666.html

Greece's party leaders and President Karolos Papoulias, at one of their meetings on setting up new government, agreed that Athens must impose veto on Macedonia's accession to NATO at Chicago Summit.

Greece's party leaders and President Karolos Papoulias, at one of their meetings on setting up new government, agreed that Athens must impose veto on Macedonia's accession to NATO at Chicago Summit.

According to transcripts of the meeting, published by Papoulias' Cabinet, Greek party leaders pointed out that Macedonia's accession to NATO was not on the Summit's agenda. However, if there were attempts for raising the issue Greek representatives at the summit should impose a veto.

The discussion on Macedonia at the meeting, held yesterday, was raised by the leader of right-wing Independent Greeks party, Panos Kammenos, who was concerned that at the Chicago Summit his country would be represented by an interim government with limited mandate.

"We wish for even the veto right to be applied for the possibility the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia to join NATO under the name 'Macedonia'," Kammenos said.

PASOK (Greek Socialist) leader Evangelos Venizelos said if the issue came up at the Chicago Summit, Greece should act in line with its national strategy and arguments it had prepared as response to the ruling of The Hague-based International Court of Justice.

"Our arguments should be smarter than those presented in 2008. We should make them stronger in a wiser, more intelligent manner," Venizelos said.

Alexandra Papariga, leader of the Communist Party, considers that Greece should veto a possible discussion on the matter, as 'there is no official Greek government." A discussion on Macedonia in Chicago should and could be prevented in any case, Democratic Left party leader Fotis Kouvelis said.

Alexis Tsipras, leader of the coalition of the radical left (SYRIZA), which came out as second best at the recent elections, said a name with geographic determination was a condition for settling the name dispute.

Conservative Nea Democratia leader Antonis Samaras said veto would be inevitable if the issue on Macedonia's NATO accession was to be raised at Chicago Summit.

The talks for constituting new Greek political or technical government failed, which resulted in setting up a caretaker cabinet, under the helm of Council of State president Panagiotis Pikrammenos, the head of Greece's top administrative court. Petros Molyviatis, who served as a Foreign Minister in Kostas Karamanlis' cabinet, is to take the same office in the caretaker government, whose main objective is organise new early elections.

[The LION will ROAR]

PM: NATO didn't deserve high ranking officials from Macedonia

While Macedonian president was on his way to the NATO Summit in Chicago, PM Gruevski visited multiple locations in China seeking new investors.

In a candid interview for Macedonian media, PM Gruevski opened up admitting NATO did not deserve to have the Macedonian president in Chicago.

- There will be presence on our side, high ranking officials will be present in Chicago. This presence is perhaps over the top considering the current situation, the injustice, the unprofessionalism, the double standards and this strange politics in which the victim needs to show understanding and patience towards a bully who is commiting the injustice and breaks international laws, says Gruevski.



According to the Macedonian Prime Minister, there was absolutely no reason for the president and the Foreign Minister to be in Chicago because Macedonia's request for its membership to be reviewed were ignored from the begining.



- I personally, if I was the president, I would have not gone to Chicago. The same applies to the Foreign Minister. After such a lengthy period of NATO's ignorance towards Macedonia, perhaps attendance of the assistant to the Foreign Minister would have made more sense. By sending such high delegation we are disrespecting ourselves, again.

PM Gruevski admits majority of the NATO members have been very helpful and honest, however in the case of France and Germany who have vested business interests in Greece, in their quest to ensure Athens is happy are helping Greece trip up Macedonia at every opportunity.



- NATO comes knocking every time they need our help, our representation, our flag, our troops. During the Kosovo crisis we allowed NATO to use our country for logistical support, our troops had combat roles in Iraq, we have sent hundreds of soldiers to Afghanistan. Every time NATO needs us, they are here, knocking on our door. Everytime Macedonia has a question/request for NATO within international laws, they are simply ignoring us. We have been in NATO and EU's queue for 10 years. Macedonia simply deserve better than this, says Macedonia's PM.



This will undoubtedly create a fire storm, particularly among Macedonia's intellectuals who for a decade claim Macedonia should under no circumstance enter a two face organization such as NATO who in order to justify their existence are responsible for starting nearly a dozen wars.



One can also see the opposition screaming and kicking that they would have changed the name already and enter both organizations teetering on the edge of an abyss, of course not realizing that Athens would never allow open borders between Macedonia and Greece.

The irony here is that the opposition already changed the name (Fyr Macedonia), and the country is still lucky enough not to be admitted to the coveted bankrupt organizations.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/21047/45/

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/0...84J02U20120521

At least 45 arrests, some injuries in Chicago anti-NATO clashes

CHICAGO | Mon May 21, 2012 3:57am BST

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Four police officers were injured and 45 demonstrators arrested after baton-wielding police clashed with anti-war protesters marching on the NATO summit in Chicago on Sunday, police said.

A lawyer's group assisting protesters challenged police figures, saying at least 12 protesters were hurt, some with head wounds from police batons, and more than 60 people detained.

The confrontation began after a 2 1/2 mile march from a Chicago park to near the site of the summit, where leaders of the NATO alliance are discussing the war in Afghanistan.

Chicago Police Chief Garry McCarthy defended police tactics.

"I know that picture (of officers in riot gear pushing and hitting protesters) is going to be what people are going to run away here with," McCarthy told reporters. "But cops are not here to be assaulted."

Most of the officers sustained minor injuries, but one was stabbed in the leg, McCarthy said.

While the melee at the end of the rally received the most attention, the situation had calmed down by dark.

The size of the protests over the last week fell short of expectations. Police estimated about 3,000 people attended on Sunday, although many participants thought the crowd was larger. Organizers did not get the 10,000 people they had hoped for, or the 40,000 the anti-Wall Street Occupy movement boasted it would attract.

On Sunday afternoon, police ordered the protesters to disperse or risk arrest. Most of the demonstrators did, but several hundred ignored the order and police moved in.

Hundreds of demonstrators, reporters and photographers were hemmed in by lines of blue-helmeted police, pushing them back with plastic shields.

One young man sat at the side of the street, the back of his head streaming blood. His friends said he was hit by riot police.

"This is what police brutality looks like," said Ryan Zielinski, 23, a protester who said he was hit in the chest with a baton as police pushed protesters back. "All we're trying to do is protest and the police are attacking us."

McCarthy said officers had endured numerous profane taunts and showed restraint. But he said police would not tolerate assaults by black-clad anarchists.

"What we saw is these guys rally their courage and say, 'OK, let's go. That's what we came here for.' And I have to say to myself, what are you thinking?" McCarthy said.

The march included people in festive costumes, a few parents pushing strollers and veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

Demonstrators had little chance of being seen by the world leaders and representatives from 60 countries at the meeting of the military alliance. The summit site, the McCormick Place convention centre, is inside a security zone guarded by high fences. Protesters were kept blocks away.

President Barack Obama, who is hosting the summit in his hometown, convened the summit to chart a path out of the unpopular war in Afghanistan.

The Coalition Against NATO-G8, the group organizing Sunday's march, wants an immediate end to the U.S. role in the Afghan war. Other protesters decried U.S. defence spending and economic inequality.

Matt Howard, a former U.S. Marine who served in Iraq, was one of nearly 50 veterans who threw service medals into the street near the summit site in protest.

Vietnam War veteran Ron McSheffery, 61, said, "I'm in total support of stopping NATO and stopping the slaughter of innocent civilians. If we took the money we spent on bombs and put it into green energy, we wouldn't need to keep the sea lanes open" for oil transport.

Before the summit began, five men were arrested on terrorism-related or bomb-making charges. Three of those charged were plotting to attack Obama's campaign headquarters, police stations and other targets, according to court documents. Defence lawyers said the three were entrapped by police informants.