Jane Sandanski and the Macedonian identity

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13670

    #46
    Here is something that was posted by TM previously:
    AHEM,,,So ummm isn't it funny how your past is extremely questionable yet you modern "greeks" have something to say about ours???

    The following is from 1901 from Madam Tsilka's unpublished memoirs about the story of her being kidnapped with Miss Stone by Macedonians;

    Very soon a man emerged from a pile of branches and came near us. He looked nervous and confused and hesitated in his speech. "Please," I said, "Tell us, are you Christian bandits of Turks?"
    "Oh," he said "We are a mixture of faiths and nationalities. Among us are Bulgarians and Albanians, Serbs and Macedonians. We even have a Jew with us. But we are no bandits. You shall know very soon why you were captured."

    The man who spoke was Jane Sandanski.
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

    Comment

    • Onur
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2010
      • 2389

      #47
      Maybe Sandanski couldn't achieve his goal about Macedonia but he played a major part in Turkey`s history.

      Young Turks did their coup d`etat against the sultan Abdulhamit in 1908 and sent him to exile in Salonika but one year laters, the sultan gathered a small regimen, arranged some supporters of him in Istanbul and tried to get back his reign by doing a counter coup. He managed to enter Topkapi palace in Istanbul but he was successful for few days only.

      Young Turks was already providing financial support to Sandanski b4 and allowed him to gather more men to his squad. They asked help from Sandanski`s small army to rescue them in Istanbul. Two different army gathered in Salonika, one of them was 3rd regimen of Salonika, their second commander was Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. He was just an officer at that time. And the 2nd army was commanded by Sandanski, the army of Macedonians. They marched on to Istanbul from Salonika together and crushed the counter coup of the sultan in there.

      Sandanski`s regiment was the first ever foreign army who entered to Istanbul after ~450 years. This is very well known because when monarchists heard that Sandanski is coming to Istanbul, they started doing propaganda like "Young Turks calling an army of infidels (christians) to Istanbul" to get people`s support on their side but that didn't work and backfired to them because both Sandanski`s regiment and the Mustafa Kemal`s army welcomed with a big joy of 10.000s gathered in a city square in Istanbul, people regarded them as their saviors. About ~70 men died in that day and right after the incident, Young Turk`s party erected a monument in the city square to honor the soldiers of Sandanski and the 3rd regimen of Salonika. The square`s name has been changed to "Hurriyet", "liberty square" after that. This monument still has a big importance today. It`s seen as a first real victory against the islamic monarchy in Turkey.

      You can read here;
      Monument of Liberty, Istanbul
      The Monument of Liberty (Turkish: Hürriyet Anıtı), located in the neighborhood of Çağlayan in Şişli district of Istanbul, Turkey, is a memorial in honor of soldiers killed during the Radical Islamic attacks against the Ottoman Empire's House of Parliament.

      The place holds also the burials of four notable Ottoman high ranked officials, which were brought here in a later time. The monument, seen today as a symbol of modernism, democracy and laicism in Turkey,[1] serves as the focal point of official ceremonies and public gatherings in Istanbul. Modern historians determine the incident as the victory of modernism and democracy against the radical islamic action in the Islamic country.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monumen...erty,_Istanbul
      Last edited by Onur; 11-16-2011, 02:55 PM.

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13670

        #48
        Thanks Onur, very interesting.
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          #49
          That is amazing actually Onur.
          What interesting times.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • Onur
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2010
            • 2389

            #50
            Yes, it is very interesting and i forgot something important;

            This event and particularly the role of Sandanski`s army made a huge sensation in Greece and in Bulgaria at that time. Sandanski was already the enemy of centralist pro-Bulgaria Macedonians b4 but after his help on crushing the sultan`s counter coup attempt, Tsar Ferdinand of Bulgaria decided to kill him because of his close cooperation with Young Turks and ofc because of the fear of autonomous Macedonia.

            Tsar Ferdinand sent assassins to kill him in Salonika only after 1-2 months of the events in Istanbul. The assassins seriously injured him but he survived the attack. As far as i remember, he was already killed few years after that by centralist assassins again.
            Last edited by Onur; 11-16-2011, 04:22 PM.

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13670

              #51
              Thanks to some of our MTO members and friends we were able to obtain the relevant page number and translation of the Stavridis text, which was based on discussions with Todor Panica relating to the identity of Jane Sandanski. Here is the page:


              Here is the Macedonian version:
              ТЕОРИЈАТА НА САHДАНСКИ

              Кое беше значи проповедението на Сандански? Тој со потекло од Македонија на Пирин (денес Бугарија), припаѓање на таканаречените славофони Македонци. Но имаше доста образование и големи лидерски способности и без друго, волја, одлучност, храброст и настојување за неговата борба. Проповедуваше дека како што се ослободи од турското робство грчката нација, и србската и бугарската, дојде време да се ослободи и ,,Македонската нација,, и да стане целосно независна држава. Проповедуваше дека сите жители на Македонија, апсолутно сите, не се ниту Бугари, ниту Грци, ниту Куцовласи, дури и ако некои како него го зборуваат македонскиот јазик, некои грчкиот или куцовлашкиот, кој е мешавина на латински, грчки и турски, туку сите жители на Македонија се само Македонци, оригинални потомци на античките Македонци, на Филип и на Александар, кои и тие не беа Грци, туку посебна македонска нација и дури војуваа против Грците и ги победија.
              English (rough) version:
              THE THEORY OF SANDANSKI

              What meaning did the preaching of Sandanski have? Descending from Pirin Macedonia (today Bulgaria), he belonged to the so-called slavophone Macedonians. But he had lots of great education and leadership skills and without anything else, will, determination, courage and fight for his struggle. He preached that as the Greek nation and the Serb and Bulgarian freed itself from Turkish slavery, it was time to also free the "Macedonian nation" and become a fully independent state. He preached that all citizens of Macedonia, absolutely all, are neither Bulgarians nor Greeks, nor Vlachs, even if some like him speak Macedonian, some Greek or Vlach, which is a mix of Latin, Greek and Turkish, but all residents of Macedonia are only Macedonians, original descendants of the ancient Macedonians, of Philip and Alexander, whom were also not Greeks, but a separate Macedonian nation and even fought against the Greeks and won.
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15658

                #52
                Oh my goodness.
                A Greek saying such things.
                Perhaps we can help locate his grave so that proud Greeks can bury him a little deeper for better concealment.
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • Soldier of Macedon
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 13670

                  #53
                  Although Sandanski died in 1915, the Greek writer Stavridis lived till 1966, and his conversations with Panitsa must have taken place prior to 1925, which is when he died. It is quite interesting given that Todor Panitsa was (apparently) himself from northern Bulgaria yet still spoke of Sandanski's (a close friend) sentiment as a Macedonian.
                  In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                  Comment

                  • Daskalot
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 4345

                    #54
                    What a valuable discovery, a Greek saying this is quite unbelievable, him writing it in a book that gets published and thus is public knowledge is even more unbelievable!

                    As I have said so many times, the TRUTH is out there, there is so much more to discover!

                    Bravo to all involved and thank you!
                    Macedonian Truth Organisation

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      #55
                      Originally posted by Onur View Post
                      Yes, it is very interesting and i forgot something important;

                      This event and particularly the role of Sandanski`s army made a huge sensation in Greece and in Bulgaria at that time. Sandanski was already the enemy of centralist pro-Bulgaria Macedonians b4 but after his help on crushing the sultan`s counter coup attempt, Tsar Ferdinand of Bulgaria decided to kill him because of his close cooperation with Young Turks and ofc because of the fear of autonomous Macedonia.

                      Tsar Ferdinand sent assassins to kill him in Salonika only after 1-2 months of the events in Istanbul. The assassins seriously injured him but he survived the attack. As far as i remember, he was already killed few years after that by centralist assassins again.
                      Here is an article from 1908 cited in another thread:


                      Originally posted by Daskalot View Post


                      Taken from The New York Daily Tribune, September 7th 1908.
                      There were Turks, Armenians, Macedonians, Syrians, Bulgarians, Albanians and a few Greeks........
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        #56
                        Does anybody have a source for the below quote from Jane Sandanski, which he apparently said during the Rila Congress of 1905?
                        Mакедонскиот народ е самостоен народ кој има право на самостоен живот и затоа треба да се бори за извојување на својата слобода без да се надева на туѓа помош, зошто оние кои ќе дојдат да гo ослободат, всушност ќе дојдат да гo заробат.
                        All I could find was the below link, but it doesn't cite a source:

                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • DraganOfStip
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2011
                          • 1253

                          #57
                          Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                          Does anybody have a source for the below quote from Jane Sandanski, which he apparently said during the Rila Congress of 1905?

                          All I could find was the below link, but it doesn't cite a source:

                          http://mk.pandapedia.com/wiki/%D0%88...81%D0%BA%D0%B8
                          SoM,that's my signature I'm using here.I don't have the original source as well,I got it from our macedoniandocuments website,here's the link:



                          But the site doesn't show the source either.
                          ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                          ― George Orwell

                          Comment

                          • DraganOfStip
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2011
                            • 1253

                            #58


                            This is the obituary of Jane Sandanski.The notable thing about it is that it writes about Macedonian people and Macedonia.In the sentence "Citizens of disadvantaged Bulgaria and you warriors,inexorable for the freedom of the oppressed Macedonian people...",it only shows Macedonians as citizens of Bulgaria,NOT Bulgarians,(since Macedonia still didn't exist as a state at the time to be citizen of) as it is clear from the following part of the sentence where we're referred as Macedonian people.
                            Great stuff
                            ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                            ― George Orwell

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              #59
                              Originally posted by DraganOfStip View Post


                              This is the obituary of Jane Sandanski.The notable thing about it is that it writes about Macedonian people and Macedonia.In the sentence "Citizens of disadvantaged Bulgaria and you warriors,inexorable for the freedom of the oppressed Macedonian people...",it only shows Macedonians as citizens of Bulgaria,NOT Bulgarians,(since Macedonia still didn't exist as a state at the time to be citizen of) as it is clear from the following part of the sentence where we're referred as Macedonian people.
                              Great stuff
                              Good find. There is also this:



                              The legendary warrior

                              Jane Iv. Sandanski

                              “Starikt” “Pirin Tsar”*.
                              Born 1874 in the village of Vlahi in the Melnik district, due to 20 years of fight for freeing the Macedonian slave, was killed on 10 of April 1915 in Pirin, in the district of “Baba”, alas**, by the evil doing hand of the Bulgarians.

                              *the king of Pirin.

                              **Definition of the word alas as per TheFreeDictionary:
                              a·las
                              interj.
                              Used to express sorrow, regret, grief, compassion, or apprehension of danger or evil.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

                              • lavce pelagonski
                                Senior Member
                                • Nov 2009
                                • 1993

                                #60
                                Знамето на Јане Сандански
                                Ретко кој знае…
                                Знамето на Јане Сандански кој секогаш го носел со себе.
                                На знамето се нацртани две жени во кочија, шеснаесет кракото Македонско сонце, и главата на Александар Македонски во позадина со сонцето.
                                Јане Сандански го одбрал токму овај крој на знамето затоа што самиот лично тој,а и народот кој живее во Македонија го сметал за директен потомок на Античките Македонци како што биле Александар Македонски и Филип Македонски.
                                Во Младотурската револуција Јане Сандански го носел македонското знаме дури до Истанбул, црвено знаме со осмокрака жолта ѕвезда и полумесечина во средина. Бидејќи за време на младотурската револуција на Македонија и е ветувана автономија.
                                Тоа го потврдува и неговиот близок соработник Тодор Паница во разговор со Лефтериос Ставридис член на грчката комунистичка партија.





                                Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле „Страшниот Чакаларов“ „гркоубиец“ и „крвожеден комитаџија“.

                                „Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море.“ Васил Чакаларов

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