DPMNE sells out Ohrid, 32 meter tall minaret to be Built!!

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13670

    #46
    Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
    ....Orthodox Christianity is the dominant religion of Macedonians, if it were any other religion then they would practice that too.
    But it's not any other religion, it is Orthodox Christianity by and large. And that being the case, it is incumbent on us to maintain this institution and its legacy, and to ensure that it always has a place of prominence in Macedonia.
    Personally I don't even practice these religious events, nor do any of my family but I can understand why others do.
    Having a Macedonian identity doesn't necessarily mean practicing Macedonian culture. But just because you don't do the latter doesn't mean it should be disregarded, after all, aside from ties of kinship it is our customs, language, etc. which connects us to our history and our ancestors.
    Isn't it hypocritical how Macedonians are so quick to claim the Gorani as Macedonians despite them being overwhelmingly Muslim yet often discriminate against Macedonian Muslims in the Republic for being Muslim and trying to claim they are less Macedonian than the Orthodox Macedonians because of it?
    Can you share any documented examples or statistics where Macedonian Christians have specifically discriminated against Macedonian Muslims or claimed that they are less Macedonian due to their religion?
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

    Comment

    • Redsun
      Member
      • Jul 2013
      • 409

      #47
      I would like to know what does a minaret located anywhere in south east Europe symbolize to themembers positing within this thread, besides the obvious Islam?

      People consider them a religious structure, nowadays people call mosques a place of worship.

      What were the mosque originally used for? Who used the first mosques in south eastern Europe? The very soldiers that had committed such atrocities and exploited the people?

      What did the locals think of the mosques, what did they think of the minarets?


      A minaret symbolizes power, control and domination over the surrounding lands.

      They may be used to chant Islamic prayer and you may consider them apart of a place of worship but these structures are actually monuments that commemorate the victories of the Ottoman empire and now mark the area of what they had once controlled.

      They were built as a result of military conquest, there was no Muslim peter.

      I do find these conversation on Religion of great value however we should not forget that the only reason that these structures exist is because they were built by a blood thirsty Empire. You may consider a minaret a religious structure, I consider them monuments of Imperialism.

      Turkey is funding the project, they have an intent to create a feeling of nostalgia within their own peoples when they are holidaying in the Balkans this project is out of Turkish nationalistic interest obviously but will only favor the Albanians. Turkish government lost money on this project.

      Former Ottoman Glory.

      What other country would tolerate the construction of such monuments within their country? Build a minaret anywhere that hasn't been subject to forced Izlamisation or foreign rule, when you build a minaret where the religion was brutally enforced by the military and others were not tolerated... it is offensive.

      These are the reminders of a military conquest that devastated the lands and peoples. A big 32 m concrete phallic symbol that says "we fucked you".

      What does a minaret located anywhere in south east Europe symbolize to you?


      I would like to know more about this mosque.
      Last edited by Redsun; 05-23-2017, 10:46 PM.

      Comment

      • Tomche Makedonche
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2011
        • 1123

        #48
        Originally posted by Redsun View Post
        I would like to know what does a minaret located anywhere in south east Europe symbolize to themembers positing within this thread, besides the obvious Islam?

        People consider them a religious structure, nowadays people call mosques a place of worship.

        What were the mosque originally used for? Who used the first mosques in south eastern Europe? The very soldiers that had committed such atrocities and exploited the people?

        What did the locals think of the mosques, what did they think of the minarets?


        A minaret symbolizes power, control and domination over the surrounding lands.

        They may be used to chant Islamic prayer and you may consider them apart of a place of worship but these structures are actually monuments that commemorate the victories of the Ottoman empire and now mark the area of what they had once controlled.

        They were built as a result of military conquest, there was no Muslim peter.

        I do find these conversation on Religion of great value however we should not forget that the only reason that these structures exist is because they were built by a blood thirsty Empire. You may consider a minaret a religious structure, I consider them monuments of Imperialism.

        Turkey is funding the project, they have an intent to create a feeling of nostalgia within their own peoples when they are holidaying in the Balkans this project is out of Turkish nationalistic interest obviously but will only favor the Albanians. Turkish government lost money on this project.

        Former Ottoman Glory.

        What other country would tolerate the construction of such monuments within their country? Build a minaret anywhere that hasn't been subject to forced Izlamisation or foreign rule, when you build a minaret where the religion was brutally enforced by the military and others were not tolerated... it is offensive.

        These are the reminders of a military conquest that devastated the lands and peoples. A big 32 m concrete phallic symbol that says "we fucked you".
        Good points
        Last edited by Tomche Makedonche; 05-23-2017, 11:17 PM.
        “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

        Comment

        • Liberator of Makedonija
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2014
          • 1595

          #49
          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
          I don't know how to read the following based on your reply above:

          So you are saying the religion helped the Macedonian identity? But relying on it now will mean the Macedonian identity will struggle to survive?

          Did you see Niko777's post above? A minaret is built by Turks and is immediately claimed as a symbol of Albania with flag and all.

          You should explain it better if you can.

          What I meant was that the Archbishopship of Ohrid DID help in maintaining some-sort of Macedonian identity during the Ottoman period but that we should not rely on it to maintain our identity now due to large demographic changes within Macedonian
          I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

          Comment

          • Liberator of Makedonija
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2014
            • 1595

            #50
            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
            Having a Macedonian identity doesn't necessarily mean practicing Macedonian culture. But just because you don't do the latter doesn't mean it should be disregarded, after all, aside from ties of kinship it is our customs, language, etc. which connects us to our history and our ancestors.
            I do practice Macedonian culture just do not engage in the religious services.

            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
            Can you share any documented examples or statistics where Macedonian Christians have specifically discriminated against Macedonian Muslims or claimed that they are less Macedonian due to their religion?
            Just going off what Gocka and Dragan were saying about bullying Macedonian Muslim children. But the DPMNE haven't exactly been supportive towards them.
            I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              #51
              Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
              What I meant was that the Archbishopship of Ohrid DID help in maintaining some-sort of Macedonian identity during the Ottoman period
              I don't agree. The role of Archbishop was subject to political manipulation and there were all kinds of influences that came into play. It was the people that kept their identity intact by simply adhering to their language and their religion.

              Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
              but that we should not rely on it to maintain our identity now due to large demographic changes within Macedonian
              I agree.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Liberator of Makedonija
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2014
                • 1595

                #52
                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                I don't agree. The role of Archbishop was subject to political manipulation and there were all kinds of influences that came into play. It was the people that kept their identity intact by simply adhering to their language and their religion.
                You would probably know more than me in reference to this so I can't argue

                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                I agree.
                Glad you share that view Risto, I feel a lot of Macedonians (especially from the Republic) wouldn't like to hear that.
                I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  #53
                  Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                  Glad you share that view Risto, I feel a lot of Macedonians (especially from the Republic) wouldn't like to hear that.
                  I would actually like to see a time when ethnic Albanians would feel like they are indeed Macedonians. Just like the Vlachs seem to embrace the Macedonian identity with their own unique twist, so can the ethnic Albanians of Macedonia (in another dimension perhaps).

                  Greeks seem to be able to do it with their minorities, after decades of brutal oppression, there seems to be a way for "Arvanites" to be the best of Greeks.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Liberator of Makedonija
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2014
                    • 1595

                    #54
                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                    I would actually like to see a time when ethnic Albanians would feel like they are indeed Macedonians. Just like the Vlachs seem to embrace the Macedonian identity with their own unique twist, so can the ethnic Albanians of Macedonia (in another dimension perhaps).

                    Greeks seem to be able to do it with their minorities, after decades of brutal oppression, there seems to be a way for "Arvanites" to be the best of Greeks.
                    Vlachs are basically the lego blocks for any nation, they are easily assimilated. Albanian identity is too strong for them to ever see themselves as Macedonians but there was a time when Albania and Macedonia were friends (late 19th-early 20th century). Foreign manipulation has created the problems between us.

                    In response to the Arvanites, Greece claims they are loyal Greeks but they also claim the same for the Macedonians so who knows if that is actually true.
                    I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                    Comment

                    • Phoenix
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 4671

                      #55
                      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                      I would actually like to see a time when ethnic Albanians would feel like they are indeed Macedonians. Just like the Vlachs seem to embrace the Macedonian identity with their own unique twist, so can the ethnic Albanians of Macedonia (in another dimension perhaps).

                      Greeks seem to be able to do it with their minorities, after decades of brutal oppression, there seems to be a way for "Arvanites" to be the best of Greeks.
                      I don't really care for the shiptari to be Macedonian...I want them to stay shiptar if that's what they prefer, I'd prefer them to leave and go back to Albania or Kosovo if that's what they crave, I just don't want them turning Macedonia into Albania III and thinking they have a 'right' to do that.

                      The Arvanites are the product of power politics and will remain so, or until the power dynamic shifts in greece.
                      The minute the greeks lose any semblance of ascendency, those artificially imposed descriptors will vanish and most of the Arvanites will follow the well trodden goat path toward another identity...this is the way of the Balkans, the weak, the oppressed, the apathetic are malleable but this isn't some half-arsed turning shit into gold alchemy but real people that we're talking about and the Arvanites just need a 'sniff' of hope and they'll be gone...carpe diem

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                        I do practice Macedonian culture just do not engage in the religious services.
                        How do you practice it? What do you do?
                        Just going off what Gocka and Dragan were saying about bullying Macedonian Muslim children. But the DPMNE haven't exactly been supportive towards them.
                        A certain level of intolerance exists in all societies and Macedonia is no exception. But if there is some sort of major issue with intolerance from Macedonian Christians towards Macedonian Muslims, I would really like to see the data. Just going off what he said or she said, or the lack of collaboration from a certain political party, doesn't exactly equate to a smoking gun, especially if you ignore how some Macedonian Muslims choose to behave of their own free will.
                        .....there was a time when Albania and Macedonia were friends (late 19th-early 20th century).
                        Name some examples. Let's see how deep this 'friendship' was.
                        Foreign manipulation has created the problems between us
                        Who are the foreigners that created the problems? How did they create them?
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Rogi
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 2343

                          #57
                          Interesting, according to this poll (see the map below), Macedonia shows up as the most religious country in Europe - while neighbouring Albania is among the least religious.

                          Comment

                          • Liberator of Makedonija
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 1595

                            #58
                            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                            How do you practice it? What do you do?A certain level of intolerance exists in all societies and Macedonia is no exception. But if there is some sort of major issue with intolerance from Macedonian Christians towards Macedonian Muslims, I would really like to see the data. Just going off what he said or she said, or the lack of collaboration from a certain political party, doesn't exactly equate to a smoking gun, especially if you ignore how some Macedonian Muslims choose to behave of their own free will.
                            Was not trying to assume something larger other than stating an ironic situation that can occur.

                            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                            Name some examples. Let's see how deep this 'friendship' was.
                            I have seen examples on these forums. Namely a magazine on 'Macedonia and Albania' and some Albanians being involved with VMRO

                            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                            Who are the foreigners that created the problems? How did they create them?
                            Fascist Italy stirred up this 'Greater Albania' bullshit to expand their own influence in the Balkans. Americans are now milking the idea to further their own ambitions in the Balkans.
                            I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                            Comment

                            • Albo
                              Member
                              • May 2014
                              • 304

                              #59
                              As I have said in the past a "greater" whatever county will only occur if it is the will of the powers that be.. appetites of balkan states to expend territory is equally desired should it be offered by all... There isn't a state thay feels that borders were drawn up against them in someway or another during confrences of the great powers...

                              I believe that there is a larger geopolitical game being played in the background between the EU-USA and Russia at the detriment of the everyday balkan citizen. The larger Russia's involvement in the region, the larger the reciprocity from the US-EU will be to push for their own strategic geoplitical goals and influences.

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13670

                                #60
                                Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                                I have seen examples on these forums. Namely a magazine on 'Macedonia and Albania' and some Albanians being involved with VMRO
                                These examples are mostly negligible and hardly constitute a 'friendship'.
                                Fascist Italy stirred up this 'Greater Albania' bullshit to expand their own influence in the Balkans.
                                The notion of a "Greater Albania" existed long before Fascist Italy.
                                I do practice Macedonian culture just do not engage in the religious services.
                                I think you missed my other question in relation to the above statement. How do you practice it? What do you do?
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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