Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

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  • Rogi
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 2343

    42 of the 81 are ethnic Macedonians, the rest are Albanians, Turks, Serbs, Bosnaks or Gypsy.

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      Macedonian majority there (just).
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Carlin
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 3332

        Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
        I hear Kamenos has resigned...
        Defense Minister Panos Kammenos admitted in a press conference following his resignation statement Sunday, that only two other Independent Greeks lawmakers will follow him in voting against the government and the name deal.

        The 7-strong parliamentary group, which has propped up the government majority of 152 in the 300-member Parlaiment is split.

        Defense Minister Panos Kammenos admitted in a press conference following his resignation statement Sunday, that only two other Independent Greeks lawmakers will follow him in voting against the government and the FYROM name deal.






        Last edited by Carlin; 01-13-2019, 01:32 PM.

        Comment

        • Gocka
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2012
          • 2306

          Whether Greece ratifies the deal or not is irrelevant. It won't prompt any changes from Zaev.

          All we can hope for now is that a few things happen.

          -The Greeks do not ratify the deal.
          -Zaev persists to implement changes despite the Greeks
          -That the Bulgarians make significant demands
          -Conservatives come into power in Greece and threaten an EU veto

          All of these factors should make a perfect storm to spur anger in Macedonia. Hopefully the shear volume of changes overwhelm people, at the very moment that EU entry seems like it is in question yet again. If that doesn't anger people enough to change course, then nothing ever will.

          An economic downturn in Europe to take the wind out of everyone's sails would be the cherry on the cake.

          Also the upcoming presidential election will have massive importance. Not so much from a policy perspective but from a sentiment perspective. If a SDSM candidates take the presidency, then forget about potential revolt. That would signal that SDSM hasn't really lost any support A solid win for the opposition wouldn't exactly be a repudiation of Zaev but at we can at least believe there is a pulse.
          Last edited by Gocka; 01-13-2019, 05:12 PM.

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            There is no pulse. None.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • Gocka
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2012
              • 2306

              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
              There is no pulse. None.
              Probably not. Morat malku da si go mamish umot.

              Comment

              • maco2envy
                Member
                • Jan 2015
                • 288

                Is it true that international treaties must be approved by the UN?

                Comment

                • Gocka
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2012
                  • 2306

                  Originally posted by maco2envy View Post
                  Is it true that international treaties must be approved by the UN?
                  No not in every case.

                  The way it was explained to me by Vicsinad is that because the conflict with Greece was originally initiated at the UN, and the current iterations and negotiations mediated by the UN, that is why this agreement requires UN approval. Because this resolution was conducted under the auspices of the UN.

                  Comment

                  • vicsinad
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2011
                    • 2337

                    Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                    No not in every case.

                    The way it was explained to me by Vicsinad is that because the conflict with Greece was originally initiated at the UN, and the current iterations and negotiations mediated by the UN, that is why this agreement requires UN approval. Because this resolution was conducted under the auspices of the UN.
                    Yes, and this is essentially what Russia alluded to several months ago, hinting that it has to come the the UN Security Council and that they would veto it.

                    Comment

                    • Gocka
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2012
                      • 2306

                      Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                      Yes, and this is essentially what Russia alluded to several months ago, hinting that it has to come the the UN Security Council and that they would veto it.
                      Also Vic correct me if I am wrong:

                      UN approval and Greek ratification have no bearing on what are the internal matters of Macedonia, changing of the constitution, and such? Does the Prespa agreement have any provisions stipulating on what would happen in the even of UN or Greek rejection?

                      The internal changes that Macedonia made are unaffected by the UN or Greece correct?

                      Comment

                      • vicsinad
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2011
                        • 2337

                        Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                        Also Vic correct me if I am wrong:

                        UN approval and Greek ratification have no bearing on what are the internal matters of Macedonia, changing of the constitution, and such? Does the Prespa agreement have any provisions stipulating on what would happen in the even of UN or Greek rejection?

                        The internal changes that Macedonia made are unaffected by the UN or Greece correct?
                        I think that's true. The problem with a Russian veto at the UN is that it wouldn't mean anything. Macedonia could have made these constitutional changes on its own and Greece could not veto Macedonia's entrance into NATO or the EU without any agreement. So, perhaps an argument that the agreement itself can be vetoed can be made from the technical aspect, but it would have no practical affect aside from causing some international geopolitical pomp and stance.

                        Comment

                        • maco2envy
                          Member
                          • Jan 2015
                          • 288

                          I can also see China potentially blocking the agreement at the UN.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                            ....just 80 people, sell out Macedonia, without a complaint, a protest......
                            Not that it makes (or made) much difference but Filip Petrovski and some others did protest in Skopje a number of times in the past several months.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Gocka
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2012
                              • 2306

                              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                              Not that it makes (or made) much difference but Filip Petrovski and some others did protest in Skopje a number of times in the past several months.
                              Yea him and his 5 cousins and 1 neighbor turned Skopje upside down.

                              In all seriousness though I am still in utter disbelief that almost no one protested. I think back over the years, we have had several very large protests for much much less. This is probably the point that sticks out the most to me over this entire debacle.

                              Based on the referendum results you have to assume a significant number of people were opposed to this, where were they all this time, where are they now???

                              Comment

                              • Risto the Great
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 15658

                                Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                                Based on the referendum results you have to assume a significant number of people were opposed to this, where were they all this time, where are they now???
                                Based on the referendum results AND the fact that nothing has happened since, you must assume they are either not particularly concerned OR are totally in favour of this.
                                Risto the Great
                                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                                Comment

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