Macedonia and Bulgaria: Political Relations

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  • vicsinad
    Senior Member
    • May 2011
    • 2337

    Poposki from DPMNE:

    In terms of interests, as we have noted, there are common and different interests, and in the area of ​​common interests it is that EU and NATO membership is what does not merge and what we should look at. Regarding the different interests, it is worth mentioning that they want to insert a common history with Bulgaria that is not in the 1999 declaration, and even more so with the introduction of a commission that will become a stopping point for our EU membership. At the same time, Bulgaria's interest is to provide a guarantee from the Macedonian side for non-interference in the interior of Bulgaria.

    ....

    What is important to distinguish in this context is that France and Germany do not argue about history. Neither France disputes Germany on the particularity of the language or the people, nor vice versa Germany to challenge France for the distinctiveness of people and language. If we agree that this is the model on which European integration is based, that model should be applied equally among today's countries, one of which is part of the EU, and for the other Bulgaria has pledged to support it to become a member, Poposki says .

    Comment

    • vicsinad
      Senior Member
      • May 2011
      • 2337

      Today, Zaev signed the agreement with Borisov. Zaev stated that all issues are now closed.

      That's not what his party leader predecessor thought. Zaev is making Crvenkovski's time look like the good old days for Macedonian patriotism and national interests:

      - The unwillingness in Bulgaria to recognize the distinctiveness of the Macedonian people and the distinctiveness of the Macedonian language creates doubt. I claim that if this issue is solved and can be resolved only by the Bulgarian side, respecting this right that at that moment, no reserve, currently and in the following, I do not know how many years, decades or centuries in the relations between the two countries, The two peoples will no longer exist, said Sofia's Branko Crvenkovski, the then leader of the Social Democrats during a visit to Bulgaria for meetings with the Bulgarian political leadership.

      He opposed the agreement with Bulgaria if the Macedonian language and the Macedonian nation are not recognized. Unlike him, the current Zoran Zaev is now planning to sign an agreement that has far greater significance than the agreement that Crvenkovski once stood up against and asked Bulgaria to recognize our nation and language.

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15658

        Oh FYROM, where is Macedonia.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • vicsinad
          Senior Member
          • May 2011
          • 2337

          Macedonia is only left in the hearts and minds of a few people in that country...

          Comment

          • Odi Zvezdo
            Junior Member
            • Apr 2016
            • 63

            Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
            Macedonia is only left in the hearts and minds of a few people in that country...
            I think that's in a lot of countries these days Vic....even in Australia with all this political correctness going around these days you can't say boo without getting yourself into trouble...and further to that its the prostitutes I mean politicians that will do anything for a vote...its the way of the world now..

            My question is why isn't there anyone in Macedonia that is willing to turn around and give everyone the bird and say no more???

            Comment

            • vicsinad
              Senior Member
              • May 2011
              • 2337

              While I don't necessarily agree with Ivanov on the first point, I'm glad he said it.

              “In order to create conditions for prosperity in our globalized world, it is necessary to be part of the European Union and NATO. It was precisely the membership that was supposed to finally allow us to achieve complete freedom. However, on that road, we, as a state, are being blackmailed. No other member state on its European path has faced such issues on which we spend our time, energy and patience on, and on a daily basis. No such demands were made to other member states, what have been required of us, denying us the right to human dignity and self-identification”, said Ivanov.

              Today, on the occasion of the state holiday, Ilinden, President Gjorge Ivanov laid wreaths with fresh flowers in front of the monuments of ASNOM and Nikola Karev. In front of the monument of the first

              Comment

              • vicsinad
                Senior Member
                • May 2011
                • 2337

                I'm sure this is a victory Zaev and the " friendship treaty" supporters will celebrate -- Bulgaria recognizes that Macedonia has an official language.

                Idiots.

                The term of the contract is two years. The Justice Ministry specified that the estimated volume of pages to be translated amounts to nearly 20,000. The Ministry of Justice expects the interpretation to last 2240 hours. The subject of the order includes the provision of translations in groups of languages ​​as follows: First group - English, French, German, Italian, Spanish; Second Group - Russian, Portuguese, Greek, Turkish, Hungarian, Romanian, Polish, Slovak, Slovenian, Czech, Serbian, Croatian, the official language of the Republic of Macedonia, Moldavian; Third group - Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, Flemish, Albanian, Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, Finnish, Indian, Japanese, Korean, Armenian, Ukrainian. Where necessary, other languages ​​may be requested in the course of the procurement.
                The Ministry of Justice seeks a contractor "Performing written and oral specialized official translations" worth BGN 366,000, VAT included. More than BGN 300,000 of them are for written translations, and the others for oral translations, reported BGNES.

                Comment

                • vicsinad
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2011
                  • 2337

                  Of course, that non-recognition of the Macedonian language is political and not due to "linguistic" truth is painfully obviously. For example, Serbian and Croatian and Slovak and Czech and Norwegian and Swedish are all closer related to one another than Macedonian is to Bulgarian.

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15658

                    The official language of the Republic of Macedonia is Albanian and "the other language" now.
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • vicsinad
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2011
                      • 2337

                      Detroit Macedonians on the agreement with Bulgaria:

                      Македонската заедница во Детроит донесе резолуција со која го осуди договорот меѓу Македонија и Бугарија
                      10:12 | септември 25, 2017

                      Македонската заедница во Детроит, САД, донесе резолуција со која го осуди договорот меѓу Македонија и Бугарија потпишан на 1 август годинава.

                      „Најголемата македонска заедница во САД од Детроит донесe резолуција дека договорот за добрососедство помеѓу Република Македонија и Република Бугарија е неприфатлив затоа што тој е потпишан под силен дипломатски притисок од страна на Република Бугарија со цел да ја изнуди Република Македонија да прифати бугарски компромис за македонските национални интереси.

                      Македонската заедница од Детроит, САД, е суверен и неотуѓив дел од македонскиот народ и затоа остро реагира против потпишувањето на договорот за добрососедство помеѓу Република Македонија и Република Бугарија бидејќи ниту Владата на Република Македонија ниту која било друга политичка институција има право да го споделува нашето историско, културно и духовно наследство со бугарскиот или кој било друг народ“, се вели во соопштението.

                      Од таму сметаат дека со условувањето на посебноста на македонската национална и духовна самобитност им се дава повод на непријателските организации и лицата провокатори од дијаспората да вршат уште позасилени пропаганди и да шират омрази меѓу македонските иселеници и нивните потомци, македонските православни цркви и други општествени фактори од македонската заедница во Детроит.

                      Во соопштението се наведува дека „договорот ќе биде искористен од Република Бугарија како политичка платформа за поттикнување на фалсификувани историски и научни аргументации со цел да се негира и условува посебноста на македонскиот народ и како платформа за уценување на Република Македонија пред НАТО и ЕУ како неконструктивна и непринципиелна странка во пронаоѓањето *компромисно решение за наметнатите билатерални спорови“.

                      Македонската заедница во Детроит, исто така, смета дека со договорот им се попречува демократското право на македонските институции, агенции и приватни лица слободно и независно да ги коментираат и критикуваат бугарските политички, научни и историски ставови кои погрешно ги прикажуваат или негираат историјата, јазикот и културата на македонскиот народ, како и тоа дека дека договорот е штетен за Република Македонија и македонскиот народ и бараат истиот неодложно и безусловно да се поништи.
                      Translated:

                      The Macedonian community in Detroit, USA, passed a resolution condemning the agreement between Macedonia and Bulgaria signed on August 1 this year.

                      "The largest Macedonian community in the United States from Detroit has adopted a resolution that the agreement on good neighborly relations between the Republic of Macedonia and the Republic of Bulgaria is unacceptable because it is signed under strong diplomatic pressure by the Republic of Bulgaria in order to force the Republic of Macedonia to accept a Bulgarian compromise on the Macedonian national interests.

                      "The Macedonian community of Detroit, in the United States, is a sovereign and inalienable part of the Macedonian people and therefore strongly reacts against the signing of the agreement on good neighborly relations between the Republic of Macedonia and the Republic of Bulgaria because neither the Government of the Republic of Macedonia or any other political institution has the right to share our historical, cultural and spiritual heritage with the Bulgarian or any other people," the statement said.

                      From there, they consider that by conditioning the uniqueness of the Macedonian national and spiritual independence, the cause of the enemy organizations and the provocateurs of the diaspora is to exert more intense propaganda and spread hatred among the Macedonian emigrants and their descendants, the Macedonian Orthodox Churches and other social factors of Macedonian community in Detroit.

                      The statement states that "the agreement will be used by the Republic of Bulgaria as a political platform for encouraging forged historical and scientific arguments in order to deny and condition the uniqueness of the Macedonian people and as a platform for blackmailing the Republic of Macedonia before NATO and the EU as unconstructive and an unprincipled party in finding a compromise solution to the imposed bilateral disputes. "

                      The Macedonian community in Detroit also believes that the agreement hinders the democratic right of Macedonian institutions, agencies and private individuals to comment freely and independently on Bulgarian political, scientific and historical views that misrepresent or deny history, language and the culture of the Macedonian people, as well as the fact that the agreement is harmful for the Republic of Macedonia and the Macedonian people and demand that it be promptly and unconditionally abolished.

                      Comment

                      • vicsinad
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2011
                        • 2337

                        Link to the above:

                        Македонската заедница во Детроит, САД, донесе резолуција со која го осуди договорот меѓу Македонија и Бугарија потпишан на 1 август годинава. „Најголемата

                        Comment

                        • vicsinad
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2011
                          • 2337

                          Meanwhile, the Macedonian Church in Ohrid:

                          Договорот за добрососедство меѓу Македонија и Бугарија, покрај регулирањето на општествената сфера, можат да помогнат и во решавањето на отворените црковни прашања, се вели во соопштението на Македонската православна црква – Охридска архиепископија (МПЦ-ОА) по денешната седница на Светиот архиерејски синод.

                          „Во оваа јубилејна година за МПЦ – ОА, владите на Република Македонија и на Република Бугарија објавија акт за пријателство, добрососедство и за соработка, чин во кој може да се препознае модел за решавање на отворените прашања од минатото за да се гради иднината меѓу братските соседни народи во рамките на евро-интеграциските процеси. Ваквите договори, покрај регулирањето во општествената сфера, можат да помогнат и во решавањето на отворените црковни прашања и да остварат своја конструктивна рефлексија во градењето на релациите меѓу црковните структури во регионот“, стои во соопштенито на МПЦ.

                          По полувековен опстој на автокефалниот статус на МПЦ-ОА, се додава во соопштението, Синодот ја изразува својата надеж дека „се ближи времето кога Сеправославната црковна полнота ќе ја препознае и прифати македонската црковна реалност, олицетворена во автокефалната МПЦ – ОА“.

                          Инаку, на 30 септември и на 1 октомври, на денот на празникот Собор на сите македонски светители, во Охрид ќе се одржи централната прослава на 50 години од возобновувањето на автокефалноста на МПЦ – ОА. Синодот, во соопштението, ги повикува народот, свештенството и монаштвото да земат учество во прославата.
                          Translated:

                          The agreement on good neighborly relations between Macedonia and Bulgaria, in addition to regulating the social sphere, can help in resolving open church issues, reads the statement of the Macedonian Orthodox Church - Ohrid Archbishopric (MOC-OA) after today's session of the Holy Hierarchical Synod.

                          "In this jubilee year for MOC - OA, the governments of the Republic of Macedonia and the Republic of Bulgaria published an act of friendship, good neighborliness and cooperation, an act in which one can recognize a model for solving open issues from the past in order to build the future between the brotherly neighboring nations within the framework of the Euro-integration processes. Such agreements, besides the regulation in the social sphere, can help in solving the open church questions and realize their constructive reflection in building the relations between the church structures in the region, "the MOC said in a statement.

                          After half a century of autocephalous status of MOC-OA, the Synod expresses his hope that "the time is approaching when the Orthodox Church's fullness will recognize and accept the Macedonian church reality, embodied in the autocephalous MOC-OA."

                          Otherwise, on September 30 and October 1, on the day of the feast of the Cathedral of all Macedonian saints, the central celebration of the 50th anniversary of the restoration of the autocephaly of the MOC - OA will be held in Ohrid. The Synod, in a statement, calls on the people, the clergy and monks to take part in the celebration.

                          Comment

                          • Philosopher
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 1003

                            Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                            Detroit Macedonians on the agreement with Bulgaria:



                            Translated:

                            The Macedonian community in Detroit, USA, passed a resolution condemning the agreement between Macedonia and Bulgaria signed on August 1 this year.

                            "The largest Macedonian community in the United States from Detroit has adopted a resolution that the agreement on good neighborly relations between the Republic of Macedonia and the Republic of Bulgaria is unacceptable because it is signed under strong diplomatic pressure by the Republic of Bulgaria in order to force the Republic of Macedonia to accept a Bulgarian compromise on the Macedonian national interests.

                            "The Macedonian community of Detroit, in the United States, is a sovereign and inalienable part of the Macedonian people and therefore strongly reacts against the signing of the agreement on good neighborly relations between the Republic of Macedonia and the Republic of Bulgaria because neither the Government of the Republic of Macedonia or any other political institution has the right to share our historical, cultural and spiritual heritage with the Bulgarian or any other people," the statement said.

                            From there, they consider that by conditioning the uniqueness of the Macedonian national and spiritual independence, the cause of the enemy organizations and the provocateurs of the diaspora is to exert more intense propaganda and spread hatred among the Macedonian emigrants and their descendants, the Macedonian Orthodox Churches and other social factors of Macedonian community in Detroit.

                            The statement states that "the agreement will be used by the Republic of Bulgaria as a political platform for encouraging forged historical and scientific arguments in order to deny and condition the uniqueness of the Macedonian people and as a platform for blackmailing the Republic of Macedonia before NATO and the EU as unconstructive and an unprincipled party in finding a compromise solution to the imposed bilateral disputes. "

                            The Macedonian community in Detroit also believes that the agreement hinders the democratic right of Macedonian institutions, agencies and private individuals to comment freely and independently on Bulgarian political, scientific and historical views that misrepresent or deny history, language and the culture of the Macedonian people, as well as the fact that the agreement is harmful for the Republic of Macedonia and the Macedonian people and demand that it be promptly and unconditionally abolished.
                            Vic, were you involved in writing or shaping the words or ideas of this resolution?

                            Comment

                            • vicsinad
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2011
                              • 2337

                              Originally posted by Philosopher View Post
                              Vic, were you involved in writing or shaping the words or ideas of this resolution?
                              No, but my dad was. He organized the meeting in Detroit to write this.

                              Comment

                              • vicsinad
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2011
                                • 2337

                                Zaev: We Will Eliminate the Phrase "Bulgarian Fascists"

                                Zaev says Macedonia will no longer teach pupils that the Bulgarians were fascist invaders in WW2.

                                Заев: Ќе се провери фразата „бугарски фашизам“ во учебниците

                                Премиерот Зоран Заев најави дека до крајот на годинава во Собранието ќе се ратификува договорот за добрососедство со Бугарија. Во интервју за софиската приватна телевизија БНТ, Заев рече дека со Косово и Албанија, Македонија има одлични односи, а со Србија е на пат кон подобрување.

                                Во однос на разликите околу името со Грција, премиерот наведе дека двете земји максимално ќе се посветат на решение што ќе биде прифатливо за двете страни. Заев најави повторно разгледување на учебниците каде во неколку случаи во книгите по историја стои фразата „бугарски фашизам“.

                                Comment

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