Marko of Prilep, King of the Christians

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13670

    Marko of Prilep, King of the Christians

    Marko of Prilep, King of the Christians




    The two brothers Volkasin and Uglesa ruled jointly in western and eastern Macedonia respectively. Volkasin, the father of Marko, had risen up amongst the ranks of the Serbian imperial aristocracy, and eventually secured for himself the leading governing position in the region of Prilep within the empire. In the year 1365, as Bulgaria was dealing with encroachment by Hungary and East Rome, and the Serbian Empire began to crumble under weak leadership, Volkasin gained independent rule for his domains in Macedonia and a level of power on equal terms with Tsar Uros, the son of Tsar Stefan. The independent Macedonian spirit surfaced again as the region based in eastern Macedonia ruled by Uglesa was also assured of continued freedom, signifying a clear cultural distinction between the Serbian north and the Macedonian south.

    A recent periphery problem had also risen in strength alarmingly during the 1360’s, as the Ottomans under Murad I continued to expand, setting firm foot in Europe and establishing the city of Adrianople as their capital. Bulgarian ruler Ivan Alexander died in February, 1371, as plans were being initiated for joint action by the Slavic speaking Christians of Macedonia, Bulgaria and Serbia against the Ottomans. The Serbian north, upset with the independent stance of Volkasin and Uglesa, did not lend assistance to the rulers from the Macedonian south, as the two main components of the former empire of Tsar Stefan displayed further signs of formal separation. Despite this, a large Christian force of several thousand fighters under the leadership of Volkasin mustered together at the River Maritsa, where a battle was waged in September of the same year. After a fierce, courageous but fruitless defense against the superior forces of the Ottomans, both the Mrnjavcevi brothers were slain in combat. The death of the heirless Tsar Uros followed a few months later, elevating Prince Lazar Hrebeljanovic, loosely tied to the royal house through marriage of a distant Nemanjic relative, to a major position of power in Serbian lands.

    Marko ascended to the throne in his mid 30’s and assumed the title of king, as evidenced by monastery frescoes, minted coins and popular folklore history. By avoiding the use of terms such as tsar, prince or administrator, which would indicate a direct link to the disintegrating Serbian Empire, he also demonstrated the independent nature and sovereignty of his state. With the Islamic conqueror from the East now spread across the Balkans, King Marko made best of the situation and circumstance he was in to protect his Christian people, avoiding further bloodshed by becoming an Ottoman vassal years after the battle while retaining a large measure of self-rule. Marko’s kingdom was comprised primarily of Macedonia and stretched from the Sar Mountains in the north-west to Kostur in the south, extending across Salonika to include territories further east. Prilep was the birthplace of King Marko and capital of his state, while Skopje contains a renowned monastery and frescoes picturing him in imperial dress and St Clement of Ohrid among the holy fathers, significantly excluding the figures that established the Serbian Church such as St Sava. As it was during Tsar Samuel’s time and in some respects under similar conditions, the establishment of a state in the region received the spiritual support and legitimacy of the Archbishopric of Ohrid. This show of local and cultural unity in Macedonia disarrayed the struggling Archbishopric of Pec which backed the Serbian north, as antagonisms developed further between the two camps.

    Centuries-old local folklore records the heroic battles of King Marko against several foreigners that had arrived with Islamic rule, particularly the ‘black Arab’, and his legendary feats echoed to all the people from the Adriatic Sea to the Black Sea. As King Marko consolidated his domains and increased his reputation among the people and churches of the region, Prince Lazar, the powerful Serbian leader, allied with King Tvrtko of Bosnia who in addition to also being a blood relative of the Nemanjic family also became king of Serbia in the year 1377. Neither Prince Lazar nor King Tvrtko rendered assistance to the Christians from Macedonia under the head of King Marko’s father, when they hopelessly defended Europe from the foreign invader at the River Maritsa. Almost a couple of decades later however, the favor was returned in kind, for when the battle of Kosovo took place in mi-year 1389, King Marko did not come to the assistance of Prince Lazar and the Serbs. King Tvrtko on the other hand did provide assistance to the Serbs in Kosovo by sending his best soldiers to join the army under the head of Prince Lazar. The history of the epic battle records that Sultan Murad I led forces against Prince Lazar and his army in a battle which cost both of their lives, although despite the setback the Ottomans continued to expand their borders. Prince Lazar’s heir Stefan Lazarevic assumed leadership of the Serbs, and as with other local rulers, eventually became a vassal for the Ottomans in the same way as King Marko.

    The next Sultan in line, Bayezid, ascended to the throne following the death of his father and made allies via marriage with the Serbs by taking Prince Lazar’s daughter and Stefan Lazarevic’s sister as a bride, for the purpose of ensuring security against the Hungarians. In the following years the Ottomans savagely attacked Constantinople, while also moving across the River Danube to attack Wallachia. In the year 1394 (or 1395), the army of Bayezid and his vassals including King Marko and Stefan Lazarevic did battle at Rovine against the Wallachians led by Mircea. Victory went to the latter although Bayezid and Stefan Lazarevic managed to survive unscathed. King Marko partook on the side of the Islamic invader due to his obligation as an Ottoman vassal, hence the reason why he was disheartened during this battle against Christians. King Marko died during the event, and as legend tells the story, prior to the battle the national hero made the following statement, ‘Even if I die, I beg the Lord to save the Christians’. Among many of the south Slavic people, and particularly Macedonia, King Marko is considered one of the last legitimate Christian rulers and protectors in the region, hence a permanent mark in the memory of the people.
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13670

    #2
    Some questions that need to be answered:
    1. Did a battle take place in the year 1369 between the Nemanja and Mrnjachevi, with victory going to the latter?
    2. In all the frescoes of Marko, is he ever pictured with Serbian saints such as St Sava?
    3. Does Serbian historiography allign with the theory that Volkasin killed Uros?
    4. Does Serbian historiography view the Mrnjavcevi with spite and/or as enemies of Serbian interests due to their rebellious and autonomous stance towards the Nemanja clan?



    Anybody with knowledge on the topic are welcome to comment.
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

    Comment

    • Delodephius
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 736

      #3
      I would like to help but I don't know the answers to those questions. I do know that Kraljevič Marko is considered one of Serbia's greatest heroes and there are many folk songs and tales about him.
      अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
      उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
      This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
      But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

      Comment

      • TerraNova
        Banned
        • Nov 2008
        • 473

        #4
        I guess SoM thinks Marko,was Alexander's grandchild...

        Comment

        • Delodephius
          Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 736

          #5
          Shut up ass-wipe.
          अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
          उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
          This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
          But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

          Comment

          • TerraNova
            Banned
            • Nov 2008
            • 473

            #6
            Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
            Shut up ass-wipe.
            Ts ts ts...Slovak i thought u were a wannabe scholar- Scholar of the ass maybe?

            Comment

            • Sarafot
              Member
              • Dec 2008
              • 616

              #7
              Originally posted by TerraNova View Post
              Ts ts ts...Slovak i thought u were a wannabe scholar- Scholar of the ass maybe?
              I belive that Romans crashed Macedonian truth,with help of Greeks,but Macedonians did rise again,look how it is posible that some slavs commed here 5000 kmfrom home,it was ice ''doba'' there in that time with no mark of them and for example they settled in mounting regions of Miak or Maleševo,if somebody convince me i will belive?! Until than i belive only in this:
              YouTube - Makedonija e vecna!!!
              Ние македонците не сме ни срби, ни бугари, туку просто Македонци. Ние ги симпатизираме и едните и другите, кој ќе не ослободи, нему ќе му речеме благодарам, но србите и бугарите нека не забораваат дека Македонија е само за Македонците.
              - Борис Сарафов, 2 септември 1902

              Comment

              • TerraNova
                Banned
                • Nov 2008
                • 473

                #8
                What was that?
                Vangelis' music..and Lenin ,Euripides,Stalin and all the other Macedonians conquering the world?

                Back to the point..
                Krale Marco..as a historical person was a Serbian noble without a question.
                Descended from the Mrnjavcevic ,Serrbian noble family.

                His family coat of arms.
                White Eagle (like the white Eagle(double headed of Serbia) and the 4 C ,with the cross .(the other Serbian emblem)

                On the other hand as a mythological ,epic figure he also belongs to the Bulgarians and Macedonians.

                Comment

                • Daskalot
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 4345

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
                  Shut up ass-wipe.
                  ditto. you heard what Slovak said?
                  Macedonian Truth Organisation

                  Comment

                  • Dejan
                    Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 589

                    #10
                    To TurcijaNova: learn your own history before telling us about ours
                    You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

                    A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      #11
                      I have something interesting to reveal later with regard to that flag and design.....

                      TerraNova, take Slovak's advice.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • TerraNova
                        Banned
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 473

                        #12
                        ok Marko was Macedonian.
                        Macedonian.
                        Macedonian.
                        Macedonian.
                        Macedonian.

                        He WAS not SERBIAN.

                        Ps -the level of this forum is that SHITTY Daskale ?? You r a mod-do you like that?
                        Is anybody who contests all of the weird theories exposed free to express his doubt or not?
                        What do you think a neutral observer would think about ethnic Macedonians if he walked in this forum?
                        He would see ppl acting like Monkeys ,every now and then someone dares to dispute their controversial theories .

                        Comment

                        • Daskalot
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 4345

                          #13
                          Originally posted by TerraNova View Post
                          ok Marko was Macedonian.
                          Macedonian.
                          Macedonian.
                          Macedonian.
                          Macedonian.

                          He WAS not SERBIAN.

                          Ps -the level of this forum is that SHITTY Daskale ?? You r a mod-do you like that?
                          Is anybody who contests all of the weird theories exposed free to express his doubt or not?
                          What do you think a neutral observer would think about ethnic Macedonians if he walked in this forum?
                          He would see ppl acting like Monkeys ,every now and then someone dares to dispute their controversial theories .
                          Sir, the level of this forum is light years from any Greek forum on the same topic, there Macedonians do not even get to post anything in contradiction to what the Greek national agenda is.
                          So are you a Monkey? Given that you address the word with a Capital letter?
                          Macedonian Truth Organisation

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            #14
                            Originally posted by TerraNova View Post
                            ok Marko was Macedonian.
                            Macedonian.
                            Macedonian.
                            Macedonian.
                            Macedonian.

                            He WAS not SERBIAN.

                            Ps -the level of this forum is that SHITTY Daskale ?? You r a mod-do you like that?
                            Is anybody who contests all of the weird theories exposed free to express his doubt or not?
                            What do you think a neutral observer would think about ethnic Macedonians if he walked in this forum?
                            He would see ppl acting like Monkeys ,every now and then someone dares to dispute their controversial theories .
                            What are you blabbering about, we are talking about a Slav-speaking king who was,

                            Born in Macedonia, not Serbia
                            Had his state in Macedonia, not Serbia
                            His citizens were from Macedonia, not Serbia
                            Ruled from Macedonia, not Serbia
                            Was supported by cultural organs from Macedonia, not Serbia.

                            Any neutral reader would think these facts would provoke enough thought to delve a little more into the subject, but these are normal people we speak of, and not monkeys like yourself.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              #15
                              Originally posted by TerraNova View Post
                              Krale Marco..as a historical person was a Serbian noble without a question.
                              Descended from the Mrnjavcevic ,Serrbian noble family.

                              His family coat of arms.
                              White Eagle (like the white Eagle(double headed of Serbia) and the 4 C ,with the cross .(the other Serbian emblem)

                              On the other hand as a mythological ,epic figure he also belongs to the Bulgarians and Macedonians.
                              Thanks for the Wiki quote, and that's about all you'll have compared to the chronological version explained at the beginning of the thread. Can you show me what source is used to determine that the flag displayed is the same one carried by the family of King Marko? I would like to see it.

                              Assuming it is authentic, firstly, the white eagle seems to have one head and not the two, and despite that, the two-headed eagle is the symbol of East Rome and Orthodox Christianity, not Serbian, Greek or Russian. During the period of Slavic kingdoms in the Medieval Balkans the coat of arms and insignia became quite popular, and much of it was based on the spiritual capital of Orthodoxy and other Christian and East Roman traditions. The four CCCC symbol, again, is not a Serbian symbol by origin, nor does it descend from anything that is "ethnic Greek", it is another symbol of East Rome, recorded in that form as early as the 13th century as the Insignia of the Macedonian city of Salonika, in the 'Lord Marshal's Rolls'. Note that the Serbian slogan did not allegedly appear until the 14th century.



                              Lord Marshal's Roll (LM)
                              Society of Antiquaries, London, ms664, vol 1, ff 19-25.
                              Dated 1295.The roll contains 565 painted shields, 42 of which are blank, and 48 have no name.
                              A persistent error in the roll is the painting of argent instead of or, and many other coats are difficult to decipher. This roll should not be used as a source of definitive coats of arms.
                              Source: Gerard J Brault, Rolls of Arms of Edward I, Boydell & Brewer, 1997.
                              Check the following for Salonika:


                              Notice that the colours are also displayed the same in both the Marko and Salonika Insignia, a red cross on a white background. In contrast, the Serbian Insignia traditionally has a white cross on a red background, as the below example, which is also from the 13th century 'Lord Marshal's Rolls':


                              This is not an "ethnic Serbian" symbol by origin, it is a Christian East Roman symbol, most likely inspired by the following Insignia from the ruler of Constantinople, again, recorded in the 13th century in the 'Lord Marshal's Rolls':


                              Whatever the case may be, it will never be a simple lie the way you would like it to be, the truth is always more complicated and therefore requires and deserves the research and respect. I will say to you again, with regard to Marko:
                              • Born in Macedonia, not Serbia
                              • Had his state in Macedonia, not Serbia
                              • His citizens were from Macedonia, not Serbia
                              • Ruled from Macedonia, not Serbia
                              • Was supported by cultural organs from Macedonia, not Serbia.




                              Now, if we are done talking about flags and symbols, would you care to explain why in the churches of Macedonia (and everywhere else as far as I am aware) wherever there is a fresco of King Marko of Prilep he is, as a rule, only ever pictured with a traditional saint and figure of the Macedonian Church such as Saint Clement of Ohrid, rather than with St Sava and the other Serbian saints, as all of the Serbian rulers are?
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X