Lost Solun: A History in Pictures

[Amphipolis]

Amphipois, judging by the form you greeks show I am surprised you don't claim St Paul the Apostle a Greek.

That's because he wasn't. Also his Greek is considered poor.

Also Solun, Salonica, Thessalonika are all versions of the same thing. The name of a place changing over time.

Your modern greek state has a lot to do with the changes made in the last 100 to 200 years rather than a connection to the forbearers.

From a Greek point-of-view the name of the city never changed. For instance, the local Church was Greek speaking and always used the name Thessaloniki.

Also the new testament goes against the modern day rhetoric of greece.

Eg.

.....Returning to Antioch, Saint Paul in the company of Silas undertook his second missionary journey. At first he visited the churches that he had founded earlier in Asia Minor, and then crossed over to Macedonia, where he founded congregations in Philippi, Thessalonica, and Berea. In Lystra, Saint Paul gained his favourite pupil Timothy, and from Troas he continued the journey with the recently joined Apostle Luke. From Macedonia saint Paul crossed over into Greece, where he preached in Athens and Corinth, remaining in the latter city for one and a half years. His 2 Epistles to the Thessalonians was sent from here. The second journey lasted from 51 to 54 AD. In 55 AD Saint Paul left for Jerusalem, visiting Ephesus and Caeseria on the way and from Jerusalem, went to Antioch (Acts 17 and 18.)......

Provinces or not the New Testament shows how Macedonia was a region separate from Greece.

Be careful. Your quote is not from the Bible (I don't know where it is from). The text of Acts of the Apostoles (in chapters 17 & 18) also uses the names Macedonia and Achaea in what you translate as Macedonia and Greece.


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[George S.]

Aphipolis the jury is still out whether there was a greece country in th past.It was a bunch of warring states and known as athenians,corinthians etc hardly a greece.At one point you had attic greeks,then hellenes,then romaoi yes they thpught themselves as romans.THe word greece was coined back in the 1700 from latin.Then greece wssnt a vountry until 1832.Created by the powers that be.SO its along bow to be claiminh that onr race of people is ano ther race of people.The hidden agenda is to cover up the fact of gteece taking macedonia.

[Philosopher]

That's because he wasn't. Also his Greek is considered poor.

Very true.

But he wrote in Koine Greek. And adopted the name "Paulos", in place of Saul.

Be careful. Your quote is not from the Bible (I don't know where it is from). The text of Acts of the Apostoles (in chapters 17 & 18) also uses the names Macedonia and Achaea in what you translate as Macedonia and Greece.


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The exact quote:

Acts 20.1-2

And after the uproar was ceased, Paul called unto him the disciples, and embraced them, and departed for to go into Macedonia. And when he had gone over those parts, and had given them much exhortation, he came into Greece [Hellas].

Clearly, this implies Macedonia was outside of Hellas. Now you may challenge this in terms of Roman redistricting, but it is very consistent with Herodotus' writings, which place Macedonia geographically outside of Hellas.

Moreover, the phrase Macedonia and Achaia does not imply a unified territory, but two separate territories. Achaia was the land of the Achaius, a classic name of south coast of the Gulf of Corinth, and sometimes used as a general name of Hellas.

[Amphipolis]

Very true.

But he wrote in Koine Greek. And adopted the name "Paulos", in place of Saul.

Paulus is a Roman (Latin) name, not a Greek one.

The exact quote:

Acts 20.1-2

This one DOES say Hellas. The phrasing is too complicated, probably Hellas identifies to Achaea. Most maps for Apostles times look like this (Macedonia includes Thessaly, sometimes Epirus does not exist), though names and borders of Roman provinces may have changed several times.



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[George S.]

You ignore the fact thesaloniki,thessalonika,salonika , was a macefonian city how can you claim thats greek.I Cant see that greeks and macedonians were the same p dople.THe name really has evolved. You cant say it belongef to greece it di dnt you simply t ook wgat doe s not b ljelong to you.solun was a ma cedonian city not gteek.

[Amphipolis]

You ignore the fact thesaloniki,thessalonika,salonika , was a macefonian city how can you claim thats greek.I Cant see that greeks and macedonians were the same p dople.THe name really has evolved. You cant say it belongef to greece it di dnt you simply t ook wgat doe s not b ljelong to you.solun was a ma cedonian city not gteek.

The people who called the city Thessaloniki, Solun and Selanik were certainly three different people.

Quiz: Which one of the three NEVER owned the city throughout its' history?



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[George S.]

You cant accept the fact that macedonians were barbarians non greek with a non greek language that you cant accept.BOth phillip and alexander were despised and hated for not being a greek.THe two people are two distinct races.THe omly thing was th greekd regused to cooprrate.If greece ande macedonia were the one race why did alexander conquer them?ALso before the persian war alexander set up garrisons in greece the fact is he didnt trust the greeks.
Also much is writt
Todays macedonians are not just slavs as your stupid govt days we are the real macedonoans.THe ottomans called us macedonians.You are kust delusional you call yourself greek macedonia wss a whole country bbefore 1912 its a fact .When you think what your nazi govt did to our people were decimated and deNationalised,asdimilated.You are a moron who beleives their govts brainwashing.

[George S.]

YOU have a warped and twisted mind that only beleives one thing that everything that is macedonian is greek.My view is not that but everything is macedonian.You take us for fools.I dont beleive anything you say why are you wasting our time and your time?Also you are a phoney coming on this forum posing as a woman when your a man.You should really go on to your own malacca forum what are you doing here on a macedonian forum to insult us that were not macedonians.When we know and feel macedonian.Are you god that you canbe stooge for your govt npropaganda and rubish people.??

[Redsun]

post #77. What country? Before nationalism land was fought for and dominated by Empires. Holy Roman Empire (French) German Empire, Ottoman Empire, Mongolian Empire, Muslim Caliphate, Roman Empire, Macedonian Empire, Egyptian Empire and Persian Empire

Has not the meaning of the term "country" changed throughout the ages, in the age of Empires a country was an area of land divided by natural features such as mountain ranges, rivers and seas.

What makes a country, that? Self-government, not being subjugated to a foreign administration?

I had always considered France and Belgium to be of the first countries, teach me.

When you take into consideration, "nationalism" and the "separation of church and state". These ideas changed politics and government. "Nationalism" and the "separation of church and state" has greatly defined European political consciousness.

What makes a country?

While the rest of Europe expressed their excitement towards freedom from subjugation.

The Greek government ceased land, it genocided populations of people and enforced religion and language on the remaining inhabitants of the land on which they had taken.

Is this not, empirical policies?

Why did they need a foreign king?

The government (1823) is a machine that inherited a heterogeneous population from the Ottoman Empire, how could it be anything but an Empire with such a mixed population, and initially so many languages and different faiths. It could never have been a country if it had not taken such a harsh empirlistic approach to the lands and populations surrounding it. Now, over time this empire has lost steam and settled into what we now think of as a “country”.

Before the Nazi’s, the atrocities by the hands of the Greek army were the worst.

Terrorist like the ISIS, beheading innocent villagers and occupying their lands.

The used Christianity as ISIS’s uses Islam.

[Toska]

During the middle ages, Thessaloniki was fortified by a huge wall called the Thessaloniki walls. It was built in the 4th century for the purpose to obviously protect the city from invasions and outside influences. Slavs never managed to occupy the city of Thessaloniki, but yet during the rule of Byzantine emperor Michael III, the Slavonic language was supposedly spoken by all of it's people.



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At the time St. Cyril, then still known as Constantine, was receiving his education in Byzantium, there was a strong German effort to convert the Slavic population in Moravia to the Roman Catholic faith. Their teachings however were in Latin, and as a result, in 862 or 863, the Moravian Prince Rostislav sent to the Byzantine Emperor Michael III for a "bishop and a teacher," saying, "My people have rejected paganism and hold the Christian law, but we do not have a teacher who could preach to us in our own native tongue." The Emperor quickly chose to send Constantine, accompanied by his brother Methodius, justifying his decision with the words "You two are from Salonika, and all Thessalonians speak pure Slavonic." Constantine immediately composed an alphabet and with his brother began the process of translating the Gospels into Slavonic. It appears that, at the time, the Slavonic dialects were little enough differentiated so that a translation could be made which would be broadly intelligible.

offically it maybe have been called Thessaloniki, but by the local slavic speakers it was solun because all thessalonians speak pure slavonic, even thou "the slavic invasion never breached the walls of Solun"

[Macedonian]

Q1. What was the original name of the city? Hint...it wasn't 'Thessaloniki'

Q2. What does the original name mean?

[Macedonian]

The people who called the city Thessaloniki, Solun and Selanik were certainly three different people.

Quiz: Which one of the three NEVER owned the city throughout its' history?



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Quiz: What was the city originally called? Hint...not what you call it!

Quiz: What did that original name mean?

Quiz: The very first settlement founders, the Endopi, what were they called? Hint...no greeks involved!

Give it a crack son.

[George S.]

Crack on the old fella.

[Amphipolis]

Quiz: What was the city originally called? Hint...not what you call it!

Quiz: What did that original name mean?

Quiz: The very first settlement founders, the Endopi, what were they called? Hint...no greeks involved!

Give it a crack son.

If you refer to Therme (or Thermae), it's not exactly Thessaloniki's first name. Though Strabo puts it this way somewhere (Book VIII?) "Thessalonice, the city previously called Therme" he's more analytical in another passage (Book VII, Fragments):

The Axius is a muddy stream; but Homer calls it "water most fair," perhaps on account of the spring called Aea, which, since it empties purest water into the Axius, proves that the present current reading of the passage in the poet is faulty. After the Axius, at a distance of twenty stadia (4km), is the Echedorus; then, forty stadia (7,5km) farther on, Thessaloniceia, founded by Cassander, and also the Egnatian Road. Cassander named the city after his wife Thessalonice, daughter of Philip son of Amyntas, after he had rased to the ground the towns in Crusis and those on the Thermaean Gulf, about twenty-six in number, and had settled all the inhabitants together in one city; and this city is the metropolis of what is now Macedonia. Among those included in the settlement were Apollonia, Chalastra, Therma, Garescus, Aenea, and Cissus; and of these one might suspect that Cissus belonged to Cisses, whom the poet mentions in speaking of Iphidamas, "whom Cisses reared.

Therme in Ancient Greek means heat, fever and also thermal baths.

I've read Therme was founded by Eretrians or Corinthians, but I don't know the source. As for the exact locations of Thessalonice (original position) and Therme, there are many interesting archaeological opinions (some are quite recent).


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[Amphipolis]

You cant accept the fact that macedonians were barbarians non greek with a non greek language that you cant accept. BOth phillip and alexander were despised and hated for not being a greek.

Philip and Alexander considered themselves Greek.

If greece ande macedonia were the one race why did alexander conquer them?

Because… he wasn’t racist? (Just trying)

Todays macedonians are not just slavs as your stupid govt days we are the real macedonoans.THe ottomans called us macedonians.

That’s one thing we agree on. If you define the “real Macedonians” as the descendants of Ancient Macedonia, you can’t be both that AND Slavs. You can only be one of the two (guess which one).

Lastly, Ottomans never recognized or mentioned a Macedonian nation, language or Church. But they DID recognize a Bulgarian and a Vlach one.

Also you are a phoney coming on this forum posing as a woman when your a man.

The woman in my avatar is a Greek celebrity and NO, she is not me and she is not a member of the forum.