MCASA banishes ventilator

[YuriB]

My experience is that Greek immigrants from the 60s-80s are way more traditional and conservative than their peers who stayed behind. This might be because immigrants are surrounded by people outside their culture and thus become more resistant to change in order to maintain their individuality. Then again, maybe only the people with a more cultural-oriented mindset would avoid blending in after all these years. Who knows..

[Gocka]

Past 3,000 years?

Give or take a century or two. Do you disagree?

[Carlin]

Macedonians are simply Macedonians.

There is no need to go back 3000 YEARS. It reminds me of this -

[Gocka]

Macedonians are simply Macedonians.

There is no need to go back 3000 YEARS. It reminds me of this -

Macedonians are simply Macedonians, They have been calling themselves as such for 3000 years. No one said anything about needs. We don't need to go back 3000 years to prove we are Macedonian or to justify it. But why should we intentionally ignore the past? Surely not because Greeks are chauvinists who use history to further their chauvinism. The difference is that I can believe the roots of my people go back 3000 years with out espousing hatred towards others. I don't try to change others, or deny them basic human rights by doing so. I do beat up Greeks and force them to deny their heritage, or ban them from speaking their language.

I get what you are trying to say lately, but I also think its a little misguided. Avoiding all points of confrontation with the idiots around us will not yield better results. Standing up for yourself doesn't make you a bad person. Believing in our history doesn't make us like them. Taking the "high road" doesn't mean sticking your head in the sand.

You can stand up for yourself, hold dear your beliefs and still take the high road.

[Risto the Great]

Unlike the modern Greeks. Modern Macedonians are not in such a state of mental delusion to think that they have remained impervious to the various civilisations who have impacted upon them over thousands of years.

Unlike modern Greeks, Macedonians are being denied their place under the sun and the world needs a thorough education on the matter.

[Vangelovski]

Macedonians are simply Macedonians.

There is no need to go back 3000 YEARS. It reminds me of this -

What are you on about Carlin?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Macedonians are simply Macedonians.

There is no need to go back 3000 YEARS. It reminds me of this -

The name Macedonia has been used for the country for at least 2.500 years and the term itself predates the first reference to the Macedonian state. These are facts. But you already know this, which makes it all the more puzzling why you'd equate what he said with the rubbish above, given that Macedonia has never been ruled by Greece until the 20th century aside from some coastal colonies in antiquity, many of which were destroyed by the Macedonian King Phillip II, and that 4,000 years ago there were no Greeks or Hellenes as an identifiable group of people. You make a supposition about generalisations regarding ethnic Albanians being criminals (even though you created a thread specifically on the topic of their criminality) and now this. You're usually quite sober and informative. Many of your posts have been interesting reading and I say that with sincerity. Not trying to come down hard on you but these last few instances don't seem typical of you.

[Carlin]

The name Macedonia has been used for the country for at least 2.500 years and the term itself predates the first reference to the Macedonian state. These are facts. But you already know this, which makes it all the more puzzling why you'd equate what he said with the rubbish above, given that Macedonia has never been ruled by Greece until the 20th century aside from some coastal colonies in antiquity, many of which were destroyed by the Macedonian King Phillip II, and that 4,000 years ago there were no Greeks or Hellenes as an identifiable group of people. You make a supposition about generalisations regarding ethnic Albanians being criminals (even though you created a thread specifically on the topic of their criminality) and now this. You're usually quite sober and informative. Many of your posts have been interesting reading and I say that with sincerity. Not trying to come down hard on you but these last few instances don't seem typical of you.

I may have created the thread about the "Kings of cocaine" and Albania being the "Colombia of Europe" (all articles from prominent western news sources), but I don't believe I ever generalized/disrespected Albanians in any of my comments.

You and others may already know this (because it came up once a while back if I'm not mistaken), but I generally subscribe to the theory that all modern nation-states & their respective identities and traditions are relatively recent formations - dating to no earlier than the late 18th century. The development of a national consciousness throughout the Balkans began amid the decay of the Ottoman empire. Same applied to Macedonia and Macedonians.

Whether the name of Macedonia has been used for at least 2.500 years or so is irrelevant, because following these modern theories on nationalism in the Benedict Anderson school of thought, that link simply does not exist (for any case/nation). There were a few factors which made the development of national identities possible, one of them being the invention of the printing press - which then made possible the development/dissemnation of local languages/dialects by way of printing. So, stating 2500 or 3000 years of uninterrupted continuity of anything is false, and similar to the Greek claims and slogans of 4000 years of Greek history, civilization and that "Macedonia is one and Greek" (especially since we know that Macedonia has been part of the Ottoman empire for many centuries, and prior to that part of the East Roman empire and world, where boundaries/divisions did not exist and everything was ruled by the Sultan or Emperor). I feel this is a sober, and unpopular stance to take.

The most DEVASTATING proofs against the rigid and chauvinistic claims of either Greeks, Bulgarians or Serbs (many / most of whom think and believe that Macedonians were invented by Tito/Comintern) are the testimonies and quotes from the early 1900's (as an example), which clearly demonstrate the uniqueness of Macedonians - at a time when they "weren't supposed to exist". These quotes "predate" and invalidate any of the so-called arguments about the non-existence of Macedonians. One specific example is the testimonies provided by Stratis Myrivilis (around World War I); quotes which were subsequently excised surgically from his book for obvious reasons.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

You and others may already know this (because it came up once a while back if I'm not mistaken), but I generally subscribe to the theory that all modern nation-states & their respective identities and traditions are relatively recent formations - dating to no earlier than the late 18th century. The development of a national consciousness throughout the Balkans began amid the decay of the Ottoman empire. Same applied to Macedonia and Macedonians.

Agreed.....................

[Risto the Great]

Macedonians of 500 years ago were more likely to have called themselves Christians than anything else. But they were in Macedonia and they lived a life extremely similar to that of my very own grandparents. Irrespective of modern nations and all they entail. There has been a region called Macedonia for thousands of years and modern Macedonians have no other place to call home.

I didn't read Vangelovski saying the modern Macedonians were exactly the same as those of 3000 years ago. But you would have known where to look for Macedonia on a map 3000 odd years ago. Soon we won't know where to look because of a few thieves running the country. Why the drama?

[Vangelovski]

because following these modern theories on nationalism in the Benedict Anderson school of thought

If you want to discuss modern theories, then we should really talk about something a bit more "modern" than Benedict Anderson. But while we are on Anderson, have you read his work critically? Have you understood his definition of what he thinks a nation is?

So, stating 2500 or 3000 years of uninterrupted continuity of anything is false,

Who stated uninterrupted continuity and what exactly did they say has continued uninterrupted?

[Vangelovski]

I didn't read Vangelovski saying the modern Macedonians were exactly the same as those of 3000 years ago.

That's really all I said - that the country/land/territory in which Macedonians live has been called Macedonia for 3000 years. You'd think that was a simple statement of fact.

But there is also much more that could be said that would also be a simple statement of fact.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Macedonians of 500 years ago were more likely to have called themselves Christians than anything else. But they were in Macedonia and they lived a life extremely similar to that of my very own grandparents. Irrespective of modern nations and all they entail. There has been a region called Macedonia for thousands of years and modern Macedonians have no other place to call home.

I didn't read Vangelovski saying the modern Macedonians were exactly the same as those of 3000 years ago. But you would have known where to look for Macedonia on a map 3000 odd years ago. Soon we won't know where to look because of a few thieves running the country. Why the drama?

Also ageeed........

[Risto the Great]

Also ageeed........

Hang on there.
You agReed to Carlin, but you only agEeed to mine.
Unless you rank an "e" higher than a "r", we have a problem!

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Hang on there.
You agReed to Carlin, but you only agEeed to mine.
Unless you rank an "e" higher than a "r", we have a problem!

Hahaha the alphabetical heirarchy has been identified.