Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

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  • Tomche Makedonche
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2011
    • 1123



    UN chief discusses ‘Macedonia’ name dispute with Zaev

    UN Secretary-General Antόnio Guterres and Zoran Zaev discussed the dispute over the use of the name “Macedonia” and the developments of the negotiations between Zaev’s country and Greece, in a phone conversation on March 6, the government in Skopje said.

    The statement issued by the government in Skopje said that Guterres welcomed the reforms decided and implemented by Skopje as well as the country’s friendly stance towards its neighbouring states.

    The friendship treaty with Bulgaria was assessed positively while the UN official supported the talks on the name dispute, among Skopje and Athens, headed by Matthew Nimetz. According to him, as mentioned in the government statement, there is fertile ground and potential to reach a jointly accepted solution
    “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

    Comment

    • Tomche Makedonche
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2011
      • 1123

      FINALLY!, At least one international media agency reported on the actual true issue behind the idiotic negotiations.

      Macedonian NGOs slam Athens, international organizations over decades-old name dispute - Anadolu Ajansı


      Greece accused of 'genocide' of Macedonian people

      Macedonian NGOs slam Athens, international organizations over decades-old name dispute

      GENEVA

      Macedonian non-governmental organizations are protesting ongoing talks on the name of their country, accusing Greece of committing “human rights violations as well as crimes against humanity, war crimes and genocide" against its Macedonian minority since 1913.

      In a joint statement Tuesday to Anadolu Agency, Macedonian Human Rights Movement International, the United Macedonian Diaspora, the World Macedonian Congress and the Macedonian Global Coordinative Network slammed Greece and global organizations over the decades-old dispute between Athens and Skopje over the former Yugoslav republic’s name.

      The statement -- issued by their joint branch office in Geneva -- said the Macedonian people can no longer bear the intolerable burden of injustice inflicted upon them by Greece, the United Nations, the European Union and NATO through the ongoing “talks” on the name of their country, which began in 1993.

      "What started out as a discussion to “settle” a supposed difference has become 25 years later an attempt to commit a genocide on the Macedonian people – to erase them, their country, their language and their history from the books and maps of the world," they said.

      The NGOs said Macedonians are shockingly being forced by the European Union and NATO to negotiate their name, their ethnic and national identity, their language and their history as a pre-condition for membership in these international and regional organizations.

      "This is the first time in the history of mankind that such internationally orchestrated pressure is being exerted on an entire people to self-destruct -- pressure inflicted by the nations and organizations that were supposed to be the gatekeepers of human rights in the 21st century," the statement said.

      'Genocide'

      The NGOs said the name issue is the Greek government’s invention and is merely the continuation and internationalization of its century-old domestic policy of denial of the ethnic identity of its Macedonian minority.

      They called for the establishment of an independent commission of inquiry to look into the human rights violations as well as crimes against humanity, war crimes and genocide committed against the Macedonian minority in Greece since 1913.

      "The Greek government must deal with its past and once and for all publicly recognize and apologize for the crimes against humanity, war crimes and genocide it committed upon the Macedonian minority in Greece since 1913," the statement added.

      The debate about Macedonia's name has been ongoing for more than 25 years. Athens does not want its neighbor to have the name Macedonia because of the existence of a region in Greece with the same name.

      It currently recognizes Macedonia as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), the name Macedonia used to enter the UN in 1993.

      The dispute has been one of the main obstacles for Macedonia’s ambitions to join NATO and the EU due to the veto right of Greece.

      Despite the dispute between Athens and Skopje, many countries, including Turkey, recognize Macedonia with its present name.
      “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

      Comment

      • Phoenix
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2008
        • 4671

        Originally posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
        ...Despite the dispute between Athens and Skopje, many countries, including Turkey, recognize Macedonia with its present name.
        The last line is a bit misleading and is often reported in a similar fashion...too often Macedonia is portrayed as fighting to be recognised when the truth is far different.

        Although the name fiasco exists at the UN and other international bodies (because of greek veto powers), it should be recognised that in bilateral treaties that Macedonia has with other nations no such issue exists, nor are there any issues regarding the name of the language or nationality...the rest of the world doesn't have these problems with Macedonia...only the racist greeks and mini-me cyprus have the problem...when reporting this issue, it must be highlighted that the greeks are the only one with this lunacy surrounding the name.

        Macedonia should never be changing anything that is not a problem to 100+ nations around the globe in order to appease the racism of one dysfunctional state.

        Comment

        • Solun
          Member
          • Sep 2012
          • 166

          I just heard what Zaev had to say on MRT vesti as per the attached article:



          I liked what he had to say. Do I have any faith in him actually implementing it in his discussion with Kosias and co? Absolutely not.

          I'm having trouble understanding continuous claims of irredentism against macedonia. gligorov was of course more than happy to change the constitution to say macedonia is not concerned with ethnic macedonians outside of its borders. Maybe greek politicians now refer to any mention of ethnic macedonians within fyrom as irredentism

          Comment

          • Bill77
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2009
            • 4545

            Get Fucked..... does this mean i have to like Zaev now? )
            http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

            Comment

            • Stojacanec
              Member
              • Dec 2009
              • 809

              I cannot see what zaev is saying is in any way encouraging. He has recognised there are Macedonians outside of Macedonia that are affected by his actions. So what?
              He is still doing deals with the greeks.

              they will give you a wet handshake held together by their saliva. But we have to change our roads, airports, statues, text books, constitutions....

              They can go and get stuffed!

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8531

                Originally posted by Stojacanec View Post
                So what?
                Exactly

                Originally posted by Stojacanec View Post
                they will give you a wet handshake held together by their saliva. But we have to change our roads, airports, statues, text books, constitutions....
                I was thinking about it the other day, Macedonia will spend so much money on this name change and the ramifications are massive. Not only will a constitutional change be required, but every single law, regulation, government document, sign, pamphlet etc will have to be amended. The financial cost alone will be crippling.
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • Vangelovski
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 8531

                  Nenad Novkovski, a former Georgievski Minister and now supposed academic.



                  For those of you who can't read it, basically he's saying that Macedonian Australians are protesting because we're scared that if/when Macedonia gets into the EU, the EU will be so strong that Australia's economy will suffer and we'll lose our current standard of living.

                  Yes, fyromanians are that stupid.
                  If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                  The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                  Comment

                  • Pelagonija
                    Member
                    • Mar 2017
                    • 533

                    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                    Nenad Novkovski, a former Georgievski Minister and now supposed academic.



                    For those of you who can't read it, basically he's saying that Macedonian Australians are protesting because we're scared that if/when Macedonia gets into the EU, the EU will be so strong that Australia's economy will suffer and we'll lose our current standard of living.

                    Yes, fyromanians are that stupid.
                    Bahahahahahahaha

                    For the sake of ones sanity stay away..

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15658

                      Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                      Nenad Novkovski, a former Georgievski Minister and now supposed academic.



                      For those of you who can't read it, basically he's saying that Macedonian Australians are protesting because we're scared that if/when Macedonia gets into the EU, the EU will be so strong that Australia's economy will suffer and we'll lose our current standard of living.

                      Yes, fyromanians are that stupid.
                      So the only right we have as Macedonians in the Diaspora is to defend our new nations. I wonder if the shock therapy to his brain caused that hairstyle.

                      This sentiment is precisely what I fear from the stupid Fyromians over there. They actually resent us so much that their teeth are now beginning to show. The problem is that they don't know their real enemy!
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Tomche Makedonche
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2011
                        • 1123

                        Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                        Nenad Novkovski, a former Georgievski Minister and now supposed academic.



                        For those of you who can't read it, basically he's saying that Macedonian Australians are protesting because we're scared that if/when Macedonia gets into the EU, the EU will be so strong that Australia's economy will suffer and we'll lose our current standard of living.

                        Yes, fyromanians are that stupid.
                        How the fuck are these fucken maliciously corrupt retards allowed to keep poisoning the well for our people.

                        Let me get this straight:

                        EU with Britain = no threat to Australia

                        EU without Britain = no threat to Australia

                        BUT! If the EU replaces Britain with shithole charity case Macedonia = the downfall of Australia

                        And he says we can’t make idiots of them, don’t worry fuck stick, you do a great job making idiots of yourselves

                        Fucken
                        Last edited by Tomche Makedonche; 03-08-2018, 09:13 PM.
                        “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

                        Comment

                        • Vangelovski
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 8531

                          I responded to his post - he deleted my response and blocked me. He's adamant that the EU is on the verge of superpower status and adding Macedonia to its membership is what will send them soaring. And us poor little Australians are crapping ourselves.
                          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                          Comment

                          • Pelagonija
                            Member
                            • Mar 2017
                            • 533

                            I've wasted so much energy on my ethnicity in my lifetime.. I'm starting to hate these pricks beyond no return.. I think this is it..

                            Comment

                            • Karposh
                              Member
                              • Aug 2015
                              • 863

                              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                              Nenad Novkovski, a former Georgievski Minister and now supposed academic.



                              For those of you who can't read it, basically he's saying that Macedonian Australians are protesting because we're scared that if/when Macedonia gets into the EU, the EU will be so strong that Australia's economy will suffer and we'll lose our current standard of living.

                              Yes, fyromanians are that stupid.
                              Mamicheto negovo bezobrazno i nepismeno...Lajno smrdeno.

                              I hope I'm wrong but the lack of any real or heartfelt expressions over the last week or so from our compatriots in the motherland commending our recent efforts in showing solidarity with them in safeguarding our identity is a real disappointment and, to be honest, a real worry.

                              Is this clown, with the Bollywood hairstyle, serious? Is he seriously entertaining the idea that the thousands of people that came out last weekend to say no to a name change and no to an identity change, while simultaneously displaying their Macedonian pride to the rest of Australia and the world have ulterior and malevolent motives which are detrimental to Macedonia? Gospod da chuva i da brani.

                              I think what is more likely is that this is a vindictive dig at the people he hates for living the life he probably dreams of living. If that's the case, then, why? Why so much hatred and enmity for the Macedonian diaspora? Why is the Macedonian experience so unique and special? As has been mentioned many time before on this forum, the Macedonian experience is not unique in this world. The Italians, Greeks, Irish, Swedes, Germans and many, many others have all done the same and left their homelands in search for a better life. Would this fuckwit, and like-minded imbeciles, be happier if we just completely ignored the plight that our old homeland is in and go about our lives, satisfied in the knowledge that our living standards are much better than theirs? Then they'll bitch that we don't care any more...We're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't.

                              Instead of looking on us as additional fire-power in our fight with the Greeks at international level to keep our identity, it is clear that many (if not all) look on us, their compatriots from Australia, the US, Canada and Europe with disdain and, if I didn't know any better, with an almost dark envy.

                              Sram da mu e, da se zasramat (ako imaat nekakov sram).

                              Comment

                              • vicsinad
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2011
                                • 2337

                                This whole situation is a fiasco. What amazes me is that the country still manages to function even to the slightest degree. It should have erupted into chaos by now.

                                Comment

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