Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and his Macedonian ancestry

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  • Daskalot
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 4345

    Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and his Macedonian ancestry

    The Father of All the Turks (who left no legitimate heirs) was born in 1881 in Salonika, then part of the Ottoman Empire, of a mild Albanian father and a forceful Macedonian mother. Mustafa was a rebel from the start. His pious Mohammedan mother urged him to become a holy man, but he became a soldier; at 22, a captain, he rebelled against the Sultan and was nearly executed; at 27, he joined the Young Turks rebellion, then rebelled against the Young Turks. The army, fearful of him, shunted him from post to post, but could neither shake him nor subdue him. At Gallipoli, in 1915, he defeated the British; in the Caucasus, he checked the Russians; in Berlin, 1918, he drunkenly needled the high panjandrum of his allies, Field Marshal von Hindenburg; in Arabia, 1918, he held off T. E. Lawrence's Bedouin hordes. At 38, he came out of the crash of the Ottoman Empire the only Turkish commander untouched by defeat.
    Source: Time Magazine, Monday, Oct. 12, 1953.


    The TRUTH will be known!
    Macedonian Truth Organisation
  • Pelister
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 2742

    #2
    Isn't that interesting.

    In my studies I've come across alot of Turks who were instrumental in the young Turk movement, and most of them were born in Macedonia.

    It would be interesting to break it down to see just who came from where, and what their ethnic make up was.

    Comment

    • VMRO
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 1462

      #3
      I have read that his mother was of Macedonian ethnicity, however there is also other accounts that say he was of Jewish stock, i will post later where i got this information, there is a lot of conflicting information in regards to Attaturk's ethnicity.
      Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.

      Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13670

        #4
        Interesting topic and information. I would like to see more on the origins of Ataturk and other Turks from Macedonia.

        Pelister, would the population of Turks in Macedonia during this period be largely made up of Janissaries and Muslim Macedonians as opposed to Albanians and actual Turks? What are you thoughts?
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • palatica
          Junior Member
          • Oct 2008
          • 2

          #5
          It, will be also good if someone can find out the name of his father an mother, maybe the names of his grandparents (motherside).
          Some discussions with turks here in Germany were going always the same way: Mustafa kemal is TURKISH!

          Comment

          • TerraNova
            Banned
            • Nov 2008
            • 473

            #6
            I really cannot understand this obsession with race and blood.
            If Mustafa Kemal Ataturk is not considered a Turk then who is!??!?
            He couldn't be more Turk,even if his mother was aborigine of Australia.

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13670

              #7
              Funny logic, Aboriginal Australians = Turkish, Christian Africans and Asians = Greek descendants of Hellenic Pericles' left ear.
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • TerraNova
                Banned
                • Nov 2008
                • 473

                #8
                Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                Interesting topic and information. I would like to see more on the origins of Ataturk and other Turks from Macedonia.

                Pelister, would the population of Turks in Macedonia during this period be largely made up of Janissaries and Muslim Macedonians as opposed to Albanians and actual Turks? What are you thoughts?
                Here is one of the few maps who have distinction in terms of ethnicity AND religion.
                (You can place Macedonian instead of Bulgarian where you like)

                So i suppose the islamized Macedonians (Bulgarians in the map) were in Karajova and Eastern Macedonia regions (Pomaks).



                Comment

                • Daskalot
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 4345

                  #9
                  nice map TerraNova, very colorful. Do you agree that about 25% if not less was inhabited by "Greeks" in what is now the three Prefectures of East-, Central- and West Macedonia in the Hellenic Republic.

                  Wasn't Macedonia Greek as according to your state sponsored propaganda? It looks mostly to be inhabited by Muslims(Turks) and Exarchists(Bulgars).

                  So are they the real descendants of Megas Alexandros? Or are the imported Christian Turks the real ones?

                  Thank you for showing the world that MACEDONIA WAS NEVER GREEK, IDENTITY THEFT IS A CRIME!

                  By the way did you notice all the Albanians living on the Ionic coast and all the Vlachs living in the Pindus and not to forget the Turks in Thessaly, are all of these peoples exterminated today?

                  And not to forget the Turks and Pomaks of Thrace, are they recognized minorities in Greece? This map clearly shows where they lived in 1877 and still live today. So is Turk and Pomak recognized ETHNIC DESCRIPTORS IN Ellada file mou?

                  This map is so great it perfectly shows the Greek MYTH of Macedonia.


                  I will be awaiting your answer.
                  Macedonian Truth Organisation

                  Comment

                  • Giorikas
                    Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 316

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                    nice map TerraNova, very colorful. Do you agree that about 25% if not less was inhabited by "Greeks" in what is now the three Prefectures of East-, Central- and West Macedonia in the Hellenic Republic.

                    Wasn't Macedonia Greek as according to your state sponsored propaganda? It looks mostly to be inhabited by Muslims(Turks) and Exarchists(Bulgars).

                    So are they the real descendants of Megas Alexandros? Or are the imported Christian Turks the real ones?

                    Thank you for showing the world that MACEDONIA WAS NEVER GREEK, IDENTITY THEFT IS A CRIME!

                    By the way did you notice all the Albanians living on the Ionic coast and all the Vlachs living in the Pindus and not to forget the Turks in Thessaly, are all of these peoples exterminated today?

                    And not to forget the Turks and Pomaks of Thrace, are they recognized minorities in Greece? This map clearly shows where they lived in 1877 and still live today. So is Turk and Pomak recognized ETHNIC DESCRIPTORS IN Ellada file mou?

                    This map is so great it perfectly shows the Greek MYTH of Macedonia.


                    I will be awaiting your answer.
                    Kindly point out where the Macedonians are ... You all seem to talk about anything and anybody but Macedonians. Whoever thinks Ataturk was Macedonian is ever more insane then I could image. Right of self identification ...? Wasn't that the magical word here ?

                    Comment

                    • Pelister
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 2742

                      #11
                      Terra,

                      You are going to believe a map that lists "Bulgarian" right next to "Hellene" ?

                      The "Hellene" is a Western myth, and use of the term "Bulgarian" to describe Macedonians was British political currency at that time.

                      Comment

                      • Pelister
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2742

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                        Interesting topic and information. I would like to see more on the origins of Ataturk and other Turks from Macedonia.

                        Pelister, would the population of Turks in Macedonia during this period be largely made up of Janissaries and Muslim Macedonians as opposed to Albanians and actual Turks? What are you thoughts?
                        .

                        Good question.

                        In the 15th and 16th centuries, the Jannisseries were almost all Serbian, [and sometimes Macedonian] and almost always Christian, with the exception only of the Bosnians, who converted to Islam but asked for special permission to be allowed to enter the Jannissery Corp. The language of use among the soldiers of the Jannissery corp, at that time was Serbian. There is plenty of evidence for this.

                        From the 17th century right up to the late 19th century, the Corp was comprised mostly of Albanians.

                        The Turkish forces in Macedonia was "huge" at this late stage in the game.

                        The Albanian movements were actually "deserters" from the Turkish army, so they had the numbers, they had the training, and importantly the weapons to do it - which gave them obvious advantages over everyone else.

                        You know how confusing things can get in that part of the world, and the statistics are usually no clue as to who is there and where they come from or how the identify, but if I was to take a good guess at it from my readings.

                        About 1/3 of the Turkish forces were actually Albanian (Muslim) and it is my guess that about 1/3 were Macedonian (Muslim) - this number would include many Macedonianized Turks and many Macedonians who had converted to Islam (Torbeshi, Gorani ...etc) - while the rest were ethnic Turks.

                        Just to give you an idea of how confusing the picture was for Macedonians. The man who led the attack on Gotse Delchev - the commander of the Turkish detachment was actually a class room mate of Gotse's at the Sofia military academy (when Gotze attended it for a short time).

                        Comment

                        • Pelister
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 2742

                          #13
                          Check this out.

                          London Times, Wednesday September 7th, 1808

                          "Letters from Albania state, that in the course of last
                          month very serious disturbances broke out between the
                          Albanians and Macedonians, during which was exhibited
                          the horrid spectacle of a sun fighting against his father.|
                          Much tar-Pacha had the audacity to c-raw his swonff
                          against his father Ali, the Pacha of Albania. Victor/!
                          declared in favourot the fa lings of nature; and the|
                          son, who bad been blinded by ambition, was totally
                          feared and driven back-to his own territory, notnith4|
                          standing his being supported by a numerous body of resolute
                          Macedonians. The father was assisted by the
                          brave Albanians. The Turkish troops took no part
                          neither, but remained indifferent spectators of the
                          bloody encounters."

                          It is hard to know what the author means, but this could be a case of Macedonian Muslims fighting against Albanians.

                          Source. This Macedonian blog: http://republic-of-macedonia.jimdo.c...ad-newspapers/
                          Last edited by Pelister; 12-11-2008, 09:42 PM. Reason: add text

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Pelister View Post
                            .

                            Good question.

                            In the 15th and 16th centuries, the Jannisseries were almost all Serbian, [and sometimes Macedonian] and almost always Christian, with the exception only of the Bosnians, who converted to Islam but asked for special permission to be allowed to enter the Jannissery Corp. The language of use among the soldiers of the Jannissery corp, at that time was Serbian. There is plenty of evidence for this.

                            From the 17th century right up to the late 19th century, the Corp was comprised mostly of Albanians.

                            The Turkish forces in Macedonia was "huge" at this late stage in the game.

                            The Albanian movements were actually "deserters" from the Turkish army, so they had the numbers, they had the training, and importantly the weapons to do it - which gave them obvious advantages over everyone else.

                            You know how confusing things can get in that part of the world, and the statistics are usually no clue as to who is there and where they come from or how the identify, but if I was to take a good guess at it from my readings.

                            About 1/3 of the Turkish forces were actually Albanian (Muslim) and it is my guess that about 1/3 were Macedonian (Muslim) - this number would include many Macedonianized Turks and many Macedonians who had converted to Islam (Torbeshi, Gorani ...etc) - while the rest were ethnic Turks.

                            Just to give you an idea of how confusing the picture was for Macedonians. The man who led the attack on Gotse Delchev - the commander of the Turkish detachment was actually a class room mate of Gotse's at the Sofia military academy (when Gotze attended it for a short time).
                            Thanks Pelister, that is some interesting information. Thinking of the whole Ottoman picture collectively, with regard to the Christian populations in the Balkans, it would seem that the Serbs, Albanians and Greeks were the greatest Turkish servants, and indeed aided the Turk in his objective of maintaining control of SE Europe.
                            • Serbs entering the elite ranks of the Ottoman military en masse voluntarily and via the Janissary corps
                            • Albanians offering their services as sellouts to their faith and rag-tag mercenaries that were sent into villages to complete 'mop up' operations involving the burning of villages, rape and murder of villagers
                            • Greeks betraying all other Christians by manipulating the Orthodox Church to their advantage through their cosy friendship with their Turkish masters.........


                            Apparently all big patriotic nations today.....
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • TerraNova
                              Banned
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 473

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                              nice map TerraNova, very colorful. Do you agree that about 25% if not less was inhabited by "Greeks" in what is now the three Prefectures of East-, Central- and West Macedonia in the Hellenic Republic.

                              Wasn't Macedonia Greek as according to your state sponsored propaganda? It looks mostly to be inhabited by Muslims(Turks) and Exarchists(Bulgars).

                              So are they the real descendants of Megas Alexandros? Or are the imported Christian Turks the real ones?

                              Thank you for showing the world that MACEDONIA WAS NEVER GREEK, IDENTITY THEFT IS A CRIME!

                              By the way did you notice all the Albanians living on the Ionic coast and all the Vlachs living in the Pindus and not to forget the Turks in Thessaly, are all of these peoples exterminated today?

                              And not to forget the Turks and Pomaks of Thrace, are they recognized minorities in Greece? This map clearly shows where they lived in 1877 and still live today. So is Turk and Pomak recognized ETHNIC DESCRIPTORS IN Ellada file mou?

                              This map is so great it perfectly shows the Greek MYTH of Macedonia.


                              I will be awaiting your answer.
                              The map wasn't to prove anything about Macedonia, but to lighten up a bit the question about "Turks" "Albanians" and "Muslim Macedonians" in Macedonia region.

                              I would add that apart from the original Turks who migrated after 14th century to the whole region,from time to time as "Turks" were considered the muslim Greeks (Vallaades -in Aliakmon valley-Grevena)exchanged in 1923 as "Turks", the Pomaks(Muslim Bulgarians) and Muslim Macedonians of Karajova.

                              Do you really want to mix things up once again...about who was majority,and why there arent Macedonians in the map,and about Greeks...and and so on....and destroy the thread ??

                              Comment

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