How to improve the life of Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia?

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  • YuriB
    Junior Member
    • Jan 2019
    • 54

    How to improve the life of Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia?

    As I still hold a Greek citizenship, I feel responsible of Macedonians living in Greece. Also known as Ntopioi (locals) Aegean Macedonians have been and still are mistreated by the Greek state and people.. Many of them (some in this forum) left (or were expelled by) Greece in a very bitter way..

    The question is what could be realistically done to help them. I'd want them to be able to speak their language and practice their customs freely and in harmony with the rest!

    I believe education through direct exposure to the Macedonian people and culture might be the best option. It's easy to demonize something distant and abstract. Maybe, if a Greek person had a Macedonian friend, they would be ashamed calling them you-know-what.

    If a critical mass of Greeks were exposed to Macedonians, it could trigger a shift. Right now unfortunately, the vast majority of Greeks have a knee-jerk reaction on anything Macedonian. Even worse, they tend to think all of this is an insidious plot to seize land..

    Personally, I prefer tolerant and multicultural societies and that was one of the reasons I emmigrated. I am afraid others like me are also leaving so; guess who is staying..

    Anyways, what do you think? Does the name deal change anything since Greece finally accepted the existence of the Macedonian language? Any ideas from Aegean Macedonians following the forum?
    Last edited by YuriB; 02-11-2019, 06:38 AM. Reason: Thanks SoM for fixing the title!
    Regards,
    A Greek supporting self-determination of Macedonians!
  • Phoenix
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 4671

    #2
    YuriB, did you know any Macedonian's when you lived in that racist shithole...?

    Comment

    • YuriB
      Junior Member
      • Jan 2019
      • 54

      #3
      Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
      YuriB, did you know any Macedonian's when you lived in that racist shithole...?
      Yes, I had a Macedonian friend in the army---Greeks do mandatory national service. We both served in Evros close to the border with Turkey near Edirne (old Andrianople). He taught me a few words in makedonika and had told me his grandma only spoke Macedonian. I also made friends from the Muslim minority (one Pomak and one Turk) during my service. Apart from the endless hours of boredom, it was actually useful to be exposed to people I wouldn't otherwise run into coming from southern Greece.
      Regards,
      A Greek supporting self-determination of Macedonians!

      Comment

      • Phoenix
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2008
        • 4671

        #4
        Originally posted by YuriB View Post
        Yes, I had a Macedonian friend in the army---Greeks do mandatory national service. We both served in Evros close to the border with Turkey near Edirne (old Andrianople). He taught me a few words in makedonika and had told me his grandma only spoke Macedonian. I also made friends from the Muslim minority (one Pomak and one Turk) during my service. Apart from the endless hours of boredom, it was actually useful to be exposed to people I wouldn't otherwise run into coming from southern Greece.
        I'm surprised that you have only ever met 1 Macedonian, I Pomak and 1 Turk in your life...that seems really odd, did you live on a deserted island all your life until national service...?

        Comment

        • YuriB
          Junior Member
          • Jan 2019
          • 54

          #5
          Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
          I'm surprised that you have only ever met 1 Macedonian, I Pomak and 1 Turk in your life...that seems really odd, did you live on a deserted island all your life until national service...?
          Haha! Athens actually!

          I saw more people from the Muslim minority when I visited Xanthi and Komotini. These places are kind of 50/50 I think. There are numerous mosques, some ladies wear headscarves, they sing the Muslim call for prayer, etc.

          Regarding Macedonians, they lack the protection the Muslim minority receives so maybe no one else ever decided to open up to me. Also, keep in mind that my friend's Greek was perfect, I couldn't detect any accent or anything, which again makes it harder. So Macedonians are neither visibly nor audibly different.

          If you live in South Greece, it's not that hard to not run into any other ethnicities apart from Albanian immigrants. I'd say there are many!
          Regards,
          A Greek supporting self-determination of Macedonians!

          Comment

          • Liberator of Makedonija
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2014
            • 1595

            #6
            Not much we can do when the state in question refuses to recognise anything other than a "small minority of proud Greeks of Islamic oreintation"
            I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

            Comment

            • Big Bad Sven
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 1528

              #7
              the republic of macedonia has not done much to help aegean macedonias, in fact it almost done nothing until Gruevski came to power.
              Gruevski talked big for a while about taking legal action to help the aegean macedonians against Greece - but it was all talk (remember most macedonians are all talk, espicially in Northern Macedonia)

              Today thanks to the Prespa agreement its illegal for Northern Macedonians to bring up aegean macedonians. They have 'turned a bline' eye to these poor bastards in hopes of getting into the EU in 20 years.

              If aegean macedonians want help it will not be from Northern Macedonia

              Comment

              • YuriB
                Junior Member
                • Jan 2019
                • 54

                #8
                @Nushevski777
                I like the 5 points you proposed. However, how can they and other similar ideas be implemented/enforced?

                @Big Bad Sven and @Nushevski777
                I don't agree that it is the responsibility of the Republic of Macedonia to protect/assist Greek citizens. I think Greece is responsible (and fully accountable) for that. Additionally, something like that would create a disproportionate backlash against the very people to be protected. It would be perceived as an intervention and hijacked by the usual racist sects..

                I think we need to win over the ethnic Greek population somehow. A critical mass of Greeks need to understand that they are oppressing their fellow citizens. The key, I still believe, is empathy.
                Regards,
                A Greek supporting self-determination of Macedonians!

                Comment

                • Karposh
                  Member
                  • Aug 2015
                  • 863

                  #9
                  Originally posted by YuriB View Post
                  @Nushevski777
                  I like the 5 points you proposed. However, how can they and other similar ideas be implemented/enforced?

                  @Big Bad Sven and @Nushevski777
                  I don't agree that it is the responsibility of the Republic of Macedonia to protect/assist Greek citizens. I think Greece is responsible (and fully accountable) for that. Additionally, something like that would create a disproportionate backlash against the very people to be protected. It would be perceived as an intervention and hijacked by the usual racist sects..

                  I think we need to win over the ethnic Greek population somehow. A critical mass of Greeks need to understand that they are oppressing their fellow citizens. The key, I still believe, is empathy.

                  Are you sure you're a Greek Yuri? Excuse my French but this feels like a complete mind fuck listening to you, a Greek, sticking up for Macedonians the way you have done. I know you're the exception and not the norm but, just out of curiosity, are there others like you or would you acknowledge that you're pretty much a lone Greek voice of reason in the stubborn wilderness that is Greek fascism. Either way, thank you for the support if you're intentions are genuine here and not simply trolling.

                  Comment

                  • YuriB
                    Junior Member
                    • Jan 2019
                    • 54

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Karposh View Post
                    Are you sure you're a Greek Yuri? Excuse my French but this feels like a complete mind fuck listening to you, a Greek, sticking up for Macedonians the way you have done. I know you're the exception and not the norm but, just out of curiosity, are there others like you or would you acknowledge that you're pretty much a lone Greek voice of reason in the stubborn wilderness that is Greek fascism. Either way, thank you for the support if you're intentions are genuine here and not simply trolling.
                    I'm taking your comment on maybe not being a Greek as a compliment! Haha, thank you!

                    I do agree with you that I am more or less a vast minority regarding the Macedonian issue. The discussion with other Greeks (if it ever starts) is usually over with an angry "don't call them that" comment.

                    Apart from posting on a forum, which has some effect but not extended, I am trying a bit in my day to day life. I am currently convincing my employer to drop the ethnicity question for new people. It has options that include African, Middle Eastern and South Slav but also Greek, Italian, Spanish etc. I hope you can see the problem here.. One of the arguments I used was that Macedonians for example find it offensive being called South Slavs, not to mention that South Slav, African or Middle Eastern are not even ethnicities in the first place! They are a language family, a contental adjective and a regional adjective. And please notice that this is Not 8n Greece! The same problems in their core transcend the world..
                    Regards,
                    A Greek supporting self-determination of Macedonians!

                    Comment

                    • sydney
                      Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 390

                      #11
                      Originally posted by YuriB View Post
                      Apart from posting on a forum, which has some effect but not extended, I am trying a bit in my day to day life. I am currently convincing my employer to drop the ethnicity question for new people. It has options that include African, Middle Eastern and South Slav but also Greek, Italian, Spanish etc. I hope you can see the problem here.. One of the arguments I used was that Macedonians for example find it offensive being called South Slavs, not to mention that South Slav, African or Middle Eastern are not even ethnicities in the first place! They are a language family, a contental adjective and a regional adjective. And please notice that this is Not 8n Greece! The same problems in their core transcend the world..
                      I didn’t realise NZ was so backwards. Perhaps you can convince your employer to simply add another picklist value called Macedonian into the database? A much easier path.

                      Comment

                      • YuriB
                        Junior Member
                        • Jan 2019
                        • 54

                        #12
                        @Nushevski777 Post 11 is indeed a great analysis of the problem. I think you are nailing the intertwined nature of the Greek state, Golden Dawn and Greek Church in attacking minorities from all angles.

                        In terms of how to improve the lives of Macedonians (and other minorities) we must make the general Greek population empathize with them. I don't believe Greeks are inherently bad; their paranoid and delusional when it comes to this topic though..

                        I was living in Athens. I left Greece because I never really felt aligned with and a part of the population. I was also seeing little prospect in terms of job opportunities. I chose NZ because of a good job offer but primarily because, along with Canada, it had the best reputation (I believe) in treating immigrants and other cultures nicely among the English-speaking countries.

                        @Sydney Yes, we need to work on some issues here too. They are mostly the result of inertia not mall intent though.

                        I believe there is no need to ask ethnicity at all actually. There are way more ethnicities than there countries and languages. I think it's a personal matter much like religion. Alternatively, we could provide an open textbox for people to write up whatever they want but still, I don't see why any institution should know this..
                        Regards,
                        A Greek supporting self-determination of Macedonians!

                        Comment

                        • YuriB
                          Junior Member
                          • Jan 2019
                          • 54

                          #13
                          @Nushevski777
                          This is actually great news and I'm happy to hear there is so much improvement!

                          Does your grandpa stay permanently in Greece? Do you happen to also have a Greek citizenship yourself? Voting can definitely help!

                          No, no regrets for leaving Greece. I have a more cosmopolitan and multicultural mindset. Thus, I also have concerns about the US and even Australia. I like Canada though!
                          Regards,
                          A Greek supporting self-determination of Macedonians!

                          Comment

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