John Bitove

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  • MP_MK
    Banned
    • Aug 2009
    • 332

    #16
    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
    I did not even know who you were alluding to.
    Further, (now that I do), I would not think Tashkovic would be the foremost authority on matters such as this. Not taking away anything from him but I just did not think he would work in those spheres. There is significant difference between being intelligent and being informed.
    Point is, GT always finds himself as the "go to" man and is privy to info that most are not privy to.

    If you spoke to him on such matters, you would conclude that he has an abundant knowledge on the issues, but chooses to focus on other areas.

    Comment

    • El Bre
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 713

      #17
      Originally posted by osiris View Post
      the bitovs have contributed to the macedonian cause vangelovski, they are not untainted by their association with the old mpo, but they are patriotic active and generous to the cause.
      Thanks Osiris, that's what I was trying to say. I may have gotten there eventually

      Comment

      • Prolet
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 5241

        #18
        MP, GT cant speak Macedonian at all remember?
        МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

        Comment

        • MP_MK
          Banned
          • Aug 2009
          • 332

          #19
          Originally posted by Prolet View Post
          MP, GT cant speak Macedonian at all remember?
          haha I'm sure he is getting better.

          To be honest- I know some big Macedonian activists that can not speak Macedonian ... I don't think that's a pre-requsite.

          Comment

          • Vangelovski
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 8531

            #20
            Originally posted by osiris View Post
            the mpo was the right wing fascist leaning orgnisation as it would have been if it was pro bulgarian there existed another the mp league who after the ww2 were destroyed by the us for being un american.

            the bitovs have contributed to the macedonian cause vangelovski, they are not untainted by their association with the old mpo, but they are patriotic active and generous to the cause.
            Osiris,

            Seeing as the Bitove's are supporters of UMD, and financially backed the pro-Gligorov Macedonian World Congress (a cheap and ideologically flawed imitation of Todor Petrov's WMC) in the early 90's, I'm not entirely sure which "cause" they support.
            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

            Comment

            • amitreski
              Junior Member
              • Feb 2010
              • 51

              #21
              Tom

              You are making a fool of yourself in this anti-UMD campaign. SO many inconsistencies and invented stuff in this thread.
              "No, it is not the critic who counts. Not the one who points out how a strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and may come up short, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails daring greatly." - Theodore Roosevelt

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8531

                #22
                Please point out the inconsistences and invented "stuff" that I have posted.
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • ZAS
                  Member
                  • May 2009
                  • 178

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                  Over the years, UMD (and Meto in particular) have developed a close relationship with the Bitove family, and especially John Bitove. At Meto's session in Canberra/Queanbeyan on 8 February 2010, he announced that John Bitove would be a special guest at the UMD Global Conference this year.

                  But who are the Bitove's? A simple Google search is quite revealing and shows a long history of association with the MPO.

                  I particularly found this document about the "Bulgarians of Greek Macedonia" co-signed by James Bitove (brother of John) quite disturbing:

                  http://www.makedonskatribuna.com/DISCLOSURE1960.pdf

                  UMD's continued promotion of MPO-associated individuals is also quite disturbing.
                  There was MASSIVE support by people in Adelaide in the late 80's for Bitove, Does anyone remember the Illinden Foundation?

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13670

                    #24
                    Originally posted by amitreski View Post
                    Tom

                    You are making a fool of yourself in this anti-UMD campaign. SO many inconsistencies and invented stuff in this thread.
                    Inconsistencies? Invented stuff? Tom has already left the UMD for those very reasons. Pull your head in amitreski, the fools on this and other threads are plain and clear for all to see.
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • amitreski
                      Junior Member
                      • Feb 2010
                      • 51

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                      Please point out the inconsistences and invented "stuff" that I have posted.
                      Everything you have said.
                      "No, it is not the critic who counts. Not the one who points out how a strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and may come up short, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails daring greatly." - Theodore Roosevelt

                      Comment

                      • Vangelovski
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 8531

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                        Over the years, UMD (and Meto in particular) have developed a close relationship with the Bitove family, and especially John Bitove. At Meto's session in Canberra/Queanbeyan on 8 February 2010, he announced that John Bitove would be a special guest at the UMD Global Conference this year.

                        But who are the Bitove's? A simple Google search is quite revealing and shows a long history of association with the MPO.

                        I particularly found this document about the "Bulgarians of Greek Macedonia" co-signed by James Bitove (brother of John) quite disturbing:

                        http://www.makedonskatribuna.com/DISCLOSURE1960.pdf

                        UMD's continued promotion of MPO-associated individuals is also quite disturbing.
                        Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                        Osiris,

                        Seeing as the Bitove's are supporters of UMD, and financially backed the pro-Gligorov Macedonian World Congress (a cheap and ideologically flawed imitation of Todor Petrov's WMC) in the early 90's, I'm not entirely sure which "cause" they support.
                        Originally posted by amitreski View Post
                        Everything you have said.
                        Mitreski,

                        This is everything I said, now point out what is incorrect.

                        Here, Bitove Sr. receives UMD's 1st Lifetime Achievement Award:



                        More Bitove cooperation:





                        If you read the bottom right-hand corner of p. 573 (this link should take you straight there), this book confirms John Bitove's funding of the pro-Gligorov WMC (opposing Todor Petrov):

                        The Australian People documents the dramatic history of Australian settlement and describes the rich ethnic and cultural inheritance of the nation through the contributions of its people. It is one of the largest reference works of its kind, with approximately 250 expert contributors and almost one million words. Profusely illustrated in colour and black and white, the book is both a comprehensive encyclopedia and a survey of the controversial debates about citizenship and multiculturalism now th at Australia has attained the centenary of its federation.A first edition, which appeared in 1988, quickly became recognised as the standard reference and for many smaller ethnic groups the only reliable resource. This new edition incorporates data from the 1996 Census, gives greater weight to immigrants from outside Europe, and provides some fascinating essays on 'Building a Nation' in the final section.This unique reference will appeal to both a general and an academic audience. It will be a lasting resource both within Australia and internationally.
                        Last edited by Vangelovski; 03-03-2010, 08:13 PM.
                        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                        Comment

                        • aleksandrov
                          Member
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 558

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                          ...If you read the bottom right-hand corner of p. 573 (this link should take you straight there), this book confirms John Bitove's funding of the pro-Gligorov WMC (opposing Todor Petrov):

                          http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...people&f=false
                          Tom,

                          Bitov did not only fund, but also effectively led the Gligorov-backed alternative Congress. This is a well known fact to anybody who was involved in Macedonian affairs at the time.

                          I attended the first general meeting of the World Macedonian Congress (led by Todor Petrov) in Skopje, as a delegate, and then the first general meeting of the Macedonian World Congress (led by Bitov) in Ohrid, as a newspaper reporter, within a matter of weeks (in 1993). At the Bitov Congress' general meeting, there was a heated debate about whether the two groups should unite into one congress. Bitov was aggressively opposed to this idea, claiming that the Petrov congress is an extremist organization that interferes in the internal political affairs of the Republic of Macedonia. He made reference to our firm opposition to the 'Slavist' version of Macedonian history and our opposition to negotiations about changing the Macedonian flag, name and constitution, to our allegedly 'extremist' claims to ancient Macedonian ancestry, and to our position that Macedonia should remain a unitary state, rather than move towards ethnic segregation and de facto federation between extremist Albanians on one side and everybody else on the other. When a vote was taken on whether the two Congress groups should unite, the pro-unification group had one vote more, but the chair declared it the other way around. Requests for a recount or poll were not fulfilled.

                          In the period leading up to the first general meetings of the two Congress groups, there was a vicious media campaign in Macedonia (almost all of the media was controlled by the Gligorov/Crvenkovski regime) to discredit the Petrov-led World Macedonian Congress as an extremist group. Ljubomir Frckovski, who was Interior Minister at the time, held a speech in the parliament in which he labelled the WMC as a 'fascist' group and called for it to be outlawed. The coordination between the Gligorov/Crvenkovski regime and Bitov's group in attempting to undermine and destroy the WMC initiative was more than obvious. Only those who weren't involved in Macedonian affairs at the time and have not done their research could suggest otherwise.

                          The Bitov Congress died soon after, due to a split within Bitov's own inner circle, over his attempts to take over the MILS information service, which was established by Bitov's Australian associates.

                          According to his own former admissions, prior to forming his Gligorov support group, Bitov was a staunch MPO supporter. It has publicly been alleged that he was once secretary to the infamous Ivan/Vancho Mihajlov (the self-declared saviour of the Macedonian Bulgarians, and ideologue of the MPO), and I don't believe Bitov has ever denied this. Perhaps those who know him better have something to say about this claim?

                          Having said all that, Bitov has apparently changed a lot of his contentious views over the years. For one, he apparently no longer thinks that it is extreme for modern Macedonians to identify with the ancient Macedonians as their ancestors. Unfortunately, he and some of his supporters still seem to suffer from the arrogance that repeatedly makes him dismissive of people who are a step of two ahead of him in relation to internal and external obstacles to the Macedonian cause. That's a great tragedy. If he showed a greater propensity to learn from his mistakes and not repeat them, his wealth, business acumen and political and economic influence in North America could be of immense benefit to the Macedonian cause.
                          All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                          https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

                          Comment

                          • gore na nitche
                            Junior Member
                            • Jan 2010
                            • 32

                            #28
                            Australian Macedonians should stop with the witch hunts and start focusing on Macedonian issues in Australia.

                            I wish Australia had half a Bitove.

                            Comment

                            • Vangelovski
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 8531

                              #29
                              Seeing as you are giving inter-continental advice, maybe you would like to recieve some:

                              1. American Macedonians should decide whether they are Bulgarians or Macedonians.

                              2. Those that consider themselves to be Macedonians, should decide whether they support a free Macedonian republic or a subservient vassal state.

                              3. They should be clear about what they support, rather than maintaining vaugeness in order to be everything to everyone.

                              In relation to Bitove, you can keep him (and the entire Bitove clan).
                              If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                              The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                              Comment

                              • Rogi
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 2343

                                #30
                                Originally posted by gore na nitche View Post
                                Australian Macedonians should stop with the witch hunts and start focusing on Macedonian issues in Australia.

                                I wish Australia had half a Bitove.
                                Which half?

                                Comment

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