Bravo Boris

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  • Karposh
    Member
    • Aug 2015
    • 863

    Bravo Boris

    Let me be the first on this forum to congratulate Boris Johnson and the Conservative Party of Britain. Labour did their very best to smear Boris anyway they could and portray him as a bumbling oaf who is going to drive Britain into the Stone Age (even employing Hugh Grant to that end) but, when all was said and done, the Tories pretty much wiped their arses with Labour.

    Let that be a lesson (yet another) to the left-leaning political parties around the world. Until they get rid of the far-left fringe lobby groups that are calling the shots in every lefty-leaning political party around the world and re-position themselves somewhere in the middle they will continue to be obliterated at the ballot box. The average person is simply sick and tired of all the ideological bullshit being spouted by these fools. Instead of concerning themselves with their party's original intentions - the protection of worker's rights and strong economic policies, they have chosen to go down the path of brainwashing people with their ideological diarrhoea.

    Brexit was just the tip of the iceberg. I'm quite certain there were other burning issues that the left loves to flirt with which have contributed to this resounding slap in the face to all the woke, God-less social justice warriors of, not just Britain, but the world as well.

    The same will happen next year in the US elections. Trump will win by a land slide and the Democrats will have to eat humble pie once more. You can pretty much put your house on it.
  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15658

    #2
    The left is that crazy auntie who never could keep a job and had that crazy hairstyle for a little too long. A little cool, but mostly useless.
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Liberator of Makedonija
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2014
      • 1595

      #3
      Boris' election just reconfirms the inevitable dissoloution of the United Kingdom. The divide between England and the other countries of the union could not be more pronounced.
      I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13670

        #4
        Originally posted by Karposh View Post
        The same will happen next year in the US elections. Trump will win by a land slide and the Democrats will have to eat humble pie once more. You can pretty much put your house on it.
        At this stage, it certainly looks that way. The left in Britain, America and Australia have taken certain issues too far and have been punished for it at the ballot box.
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • Gocka
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2012
          • 2306

          #5
          I think the political systems in the west are falling apart, and that is the fault of both sides of the political coin. Lobbyists, corporate money and influence, amoral politicians, opportunists, and fanatics have put so much strain on the system that it just isn't functioning anymore.

          Neither the right or the left have organic movements anymore, if you dig deep enough you find some well funded interest, or even some foreign government is behind it. It may look organic on the surface, and real people are the ones on the front lines and in the voting booths, but they have been manipulated and filled with disinformation.

          The notion of truth and fact is a thing of the past, the baseline has been wiped away and politicians have only helped to widen the divide for their own personal gain. Its much easier to get someone to vote for you when they believe your opponent is a traitor or the devil. People have mostly fallen in line behind their cause of preference, right left, up or down, and have written off their fellow citizens as the enemy. In the moment people may feel self righteousness and justified but in the long wrong these are the seeds of disaster and chaos. Take Macedonia as a prime example of what happens to a country and a society when you successfully divide the populace in half and turn their political affiliation into an integral part of who they are. It gets to the point where anything and everything is justified because you are right and your enemy is wrong.

          Things are well out of balance and everyone seems to be digging in deeper. I genuinely fear for the near to mid term future.

          I don't care what grievances you have with the "establishment" or with your personal life, or what have you. To throw your weight behind some of these charlatans posing as leaders, you need to have your head examined.

          Comment

          • Vangelovski
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 8531

            #6
            Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
            Boris' election just reconfirms the inevitable dissoloution of the United Kingdom. The divide between England and the other countries of the union could not be more pronounced.
            I'm all for Scottish independence (and the reunification of Ireland), but those haggis eating bastards only want to leave the UK so they can bog themselves into the EU.

            Originally posted by Gocka View Post
            I think the political systems in the west are falling apart
            People have thought that about democracy since Cleisthenes first brought it up and everyone laughed. But it remains the best form of government we have because it is the great equaliser. I think the fact that Trump and Brexit/Johnson won out is a testament to that.

            I don't think corporations, lobbyists, foreign interference are anything to worry about. Corporations and lobbyists have a genuine role to play in a political system where everyone is meant to be represented. They may have some undue influence, but I don't think its ever permanent or pervasive. They're mostly just a temporary distraction as the democratic machine works its way through history. The citizenry wobbles here and there, but there are always corrections (because democracy allows for it) and its always managed to survive all of the threats people have believed to be existential.
            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

            Comment

            • Gocka
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2012
              • 2306

              #7
              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post

              People have thought that about democracy since Cleisthenes first brought it up and everyone laughed. But it remains the best form of government we have because it is the great equaliser. I think the fact that Trump and Brexit/Johnson won out is a testament to that.

              I don't think corporations, lobbyists, foreign interference are anything to worry about. Corporations and lobbyists have a genuine role to play in a political system where everyone is meant to be represented. They may have some undue influence, but I don't think its ever permanent or pervasive. They're mostly just a temporary distraction as the democratic machine works its way through history. The citizenry wobbles here and there, but there are always corrections (because democracy allows for it) and its always managed to survive all of the threats people have believed to be existential.

              What a nice dose of optimism! Although I have to be honest you wouldn't have been the person I would have expected to deliver it.

              Democracy is the only viable system, no arguments there. The part that shakes me is what I perceive as cultism in the adherence to political figures.

              What I see is democracy functioning in a mechanical sense, but not in the spirit that I would associate with the purest sense of what democracy should be. The rise of social media has really put a strain on the way this system should function. Its scary how many people you can disseminate propaganda to and how quickly you can do it.

              I was reading up on some of the congressional testimony on the Facebook misinformation campaigns, Cambridge Analytica, etc.Many people thought that those Facebook campaigns were a broad brush style approach to propaganda. When in fact the level of individual targeting is like nothing we have seen before, all made possible by the vast amounts of personal data social media companies collect from their users. People were first profiled, they tried to first reach those who were most vulnerable, then they fed them a constant stream of material to steer them in a particular direction. Political groups were infiltrated. It was extremely sophisticated and would have been impossible to pull of even 10 years ago.

              People are voting, mechanically, if you look at it in that sense democracy is working and the peoples will is being exercised. For me the question is democracy really democracy if people are not voting from an an informed or even truthful position. This is evident on both sides of the political spectrum. People are being isolated in echo chambers, essentially indoctrinated. The way they receive information is becoming so personalized that information is tailored to what ever the highest bidder though you wanted to hear.

              Maybe everything seems worse when you live through it rather than read about after it has come to pass. Maybe there are parallels in history of when things seemed to be going off that rails but somehow worked itself out. All I know is that because of technology we are in uncharted territory. Politicians in typical fashion do whatever they need to do to stay relevant while the average person has no idea whats going on around them. I don't recall in my lifetime people being so politically divided to the point that families don't speak to each other. Something feels genuinely different. Time will tell if its a flash in the pan or something more ominous.

              I can't watch the damn news anymore. I turn on one channel and I have to listen to snowflakes bitch and moan about everything under the sun and promise free everything to everyone. I turn on the other channel and I have to watch a bunch sycophants trip over themselves on a daily basis trying to justify the dozen idiotic things the big orange buffoon has done or said today.

              People refuse to call out wrong when they see it because that would be an affront to their "team". Who the hell am I supposed to vote for? The 85 year old communist, the orange Lucifer, the most annoying iteration of my college professor, or Homo GI Joe?

              Are these people representative of what most people are now a days?

              Comment

              • Liberator of Makedonija
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2014
                • 1595

                #8
                Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                I'm all for Scottish independence (and the reunification of Ireland), but those haggis eating bastards only want to leave the UK so they can bog themselves into the EU.
                EU membership plays a role but Scottish discontent with the union goes back a long time.
                I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                  What I see is democracy functioning in a mechanical sense, but not in the spirit that I would associate with the purest sense of what democracy should be. The rise of social media has really put a strain on the way this system should function. Its scary how many people you can disseminate propaganda to and how quickly you can do it.
                  I am sure democracies have had their (unspirited) influences since the dawn of time. Sure, it is insidious nowadays. But the will of the people has been bought for eons.

                  It seems only the crazy people are bothering with internet opinions. Look at this forum and how opinions here are so vastly different from the popular sentiment in Northadonia.

                  Trump will win for good reason. He has justifiably taken aim at China and is using it to stress his USA First stance. Nationalism is on the rise everywhere (except Macedonia).
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15658

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                    EU membership plays a role but Scottish discontent with the union goes back a long time.
                    But they are using EU membership to get through what they have failed with every other time previously.
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Vangelovski
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 8531

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                      EU membership plays a role but Scottish discontent with the union goes back a long time.
                      For some. But a clear majority voted to stay in the UK last time because it meant staying in the EU. Now they want to leave the UK because that will mean staying in the EU. The EU is the determining factor.
                      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                      Comment

                      • Vangelovski
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 8531

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                        What a nice dose of optimism! Although I have to be honest you wouldn't have been the person I would have expected to deliver it.

                        Democracy is the only viable system, no arguments there. The part that shakes me is what I perceive as cultism in the adherence to political figures.

                        What I see is democracy functioning in a mechanical sense, but not in the spirit that I would associate with the purest sense of what democracy should be. The rise of social media has really put a strain on the way this system should function. Its scary how many people you can disseminate propaganda to and how quickly you can do it.

                        I was reading up on some of the congressional testimony on the Facebook misinformation campaigns, Cambridge Analytica, etc.Many people thought that those Facebook campaigns were a broad brush style approach to propaganda. When in fact the level of individual targeting is like nothing we have seen before, all made possible by the vast amounts of personal data social media companies collect from their users. People were first profiled, they tried to first reach those who were most vulnerable, then they fed them a constant stream of material to steer them in a particular direction. Political groups were infiltrated. It was extremely sophisticated and would have been impossible to pull of even 10 years ago.

                        People are voting, mechanically, if you look at it in that sense democracy is working and the peoples will is being exercised. For me the question is democracy really democracy if people are not voting from an an informed or even truthful position. This is evident on both sides of the political spectrum. People are being isolated in echo chambers, essentially indoctrinated. The way they receive information is becoming so personalized that information is tailored to what ever the highest bidder though you wanted to hear.

                        Maybe everything seems worse when you live through it rather than read about after it has come to pass. Maybe there are parallels in history of when things seemed to be going off that rails but somehow worked itself out. All I know is that because of technology we are in uncharted territory. Politicians in typical fashion do whatever they need to do to stay relevant while the average person has no idea whats going on around them. I don't recall in my lifetime people being so politically divided to the point that families don't speak to each other. Something feels genuinely different. Time will tell if its a flash in the pan or something more ominous.

                        I can't watch the damn news anymore. I turn on one channel and I have to listen to snowflakes bitch and moan about everything under the sun and promise free everything to everyone. I turn on the other channel and I have to watch a bunch sycophants trip over themselves on a daily basis trying to justify the dozen idiotic things the big orange buffoon has done or said today.

                        People refuse to call out wrong when they see it because that would be an affront to their "team". Who the hell am I supposed to vote for? The 85 year old communist, the orange Lucifer, the most annoying iteration of my college professor, or Homo GI Joe?

                        Are these people representative of what most people are now a days?
                        Like RtG already mentioned, I don't think there has been a time in history when someone or another hasn't tried to manipulate the democratic system. But democracy has an in-built defence mechanism in the one person, one vote principle. You can't permanently manipulate everyone to such an extent that you can do whatever you like. There are constant ebbs and flows in public opinion and while stupid decisions may be made, in time there is always a corrective wave. The fact that everyone has one equal vote heavily dilutes propaganda and undue influence because not everyone buys into the BS. And even if a majority does for a time, eventually BS is seen for what it is.

                        I also don't buy how much influence technology can have. There's only so much information a person can consume before just shutting off. Whether its a newspaper, television, internet or whatever comes next, people reach their limit and switch off. I'm switching off the news to a much greater extent because I simply don't care what they have to say. And when I do check the news, more and more I'm looking for news outlets that simply report the basic facts minus the garbage commentary and random, incoherent thoughts of the reporter/editor. I think a lot of people are doing that.

                        And technology is a double-edged sword. Organisations and governments may have further reach to spread propaganda, but this is more than counteracted by the fact that individuals can obtain the same reach. These days it only takes minutes to falsify lies. Government's can't cover up for years on end when everyone has instant access to information, everyone is a reporter through the use of their own smartphone, and social media is the go-to medium.

                        BUT, democracy only works if people want it to work. If your a northfyromian, nothing will work for you.
                        Last edited by Vangelovski; 12-15-2019, 10:22 PM.
                        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                        Comment

                        • Liberator of Makedonija
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2014
                          • 1595

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                          For some. But a clear majority voted to stay in the UK last time because it meant staying in the EU. Now they want to leave the UK because that will mean staying in the EU. The EU is the determining factor.
                          It wasn't a clear majority at all, was very narrow. Not to mention the cases of independence votes being placed in the union boxes, was a hock job.
                          I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                          Comment

                          • Vangelovski
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 8531

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                            It wasn't a clear majority at all, was very narrow. Not to mention the cases of independence votes being placed in the union boxes, was a hock job.
                            Clear as in its clear there was a majority, regardless of how wide or narrow. The Scottish people collectively decided to stay in the UK in 2014 so they could remain in the EU. Now they're butthurt because the English voted to leave the EU (The Scotts again voted to stay in the EU in 2016). It all revolves around the EU for them.

                            As for voting irregularities in the West, you should actually attend a vote count some time - anyone can sign up as an observer. You'll very quickly learn that there's literally no way of fixing a vote. There's probably a dozen observers watching each vote counter from all parties, plus random non-aligned citizens who just want to see for themselves how its all run.
                            Last edited by Vangelovski; 12-16-2019, 12:38 AM.
                            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                            Comment

                            • Liberator of Makedonija
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2014
                              • 1595

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                              Clear as in its clear there was a majority, regardless of how wide or narrow. The Scottish people collectively decided to stay in the UK in 2014 so they could remain in the EU. Now they're butthurt because the English voted to leave the EU (The Scotts again voted to stay in the EU in 2016). It all revolves around the EU for them.

                              As for voting irregularities in the West, you should actually attend a vote count some time - anyone can sign up as an observer. You'll very quickly learn that there's literally no way of fixing a vote. There's probably a dozen observers watching each vote counter from all parties, plus random non-aligned citizens who just want to see for themselves how its all run.
                              Disagree that it's solely about the EU as the independence movement has been strong all decade and Brexit is very recent.

                              As for the vote fixing, it was caught on film. There can be observers sure but when they choose to turn a blind eye then what?
                              I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                              Comment

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