Macedonia and Bulgaria: Political Relations

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  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332

    URL:


    Top Bulgarian Government Ministers tell Macedonia it will not join EU and NATO unless it acknowledges that Macedonians are Bulgarians

    Bulgarian Foreign Minister Ekaterina Zaharieva and Defense Minister Krasimir Karakacanov told the Zaev Government, in no uncertain terms, that Bulgaria will block the opening of EU accession talks unless Macedonia accepts the historic narrative set forth by Bulgarian historians. The threat comes as Macedonian Foreign Minister Nikola Dimitrov is in Sofia for a meeting of the the joint Government committee between the two countries.

    For generations the children in Macedonia were taught lies and fake nationalism. That is unacceptable for our side. Unless we agree on a date to jointly honor Goce Delcev, we will withdraw from the committee on historic issues. They have to tell the truth, said Zaharieva.

    The historic committee was set up as part of the Zaev – Borisov deal signed in 2017, and it is supposed to create a shared historic narrative. Talks broke down last week as Bulgaria, which insists that Macedonians are part of the Bulgarian nation, demanded that legendary VMRO leader Goce Delcev is designated as a Bulgarian hero in the Macedonian history books. Macedonian historians proposed that he is jointly honored on the date when his body was brought from Sofia to Skopje for burial, but the Bulgarian side took this as an attempt to emphasize his Macedonian background and reacted angrilly. Zaharieva did not mince her words about the proposal.

    Most Bulgarians don’t even know that date. It represents the height of national treason. We can’t celebrate it! It was a date when, under pressure from Stalin, Georgi Dimitrov sent the mortal remains of Goce Delcev to Skopje. To celebrate it is absurd, Zaharieva said.

    Defense Minister Karakacanov added that Macedonia can’t become a member of EU and NATO unless it accepts the Bulgarian position on these historic issues. He directly rejected Dimitrov’s plea that the Bulgarian side refrains from using ultimatums, and reminded him of what he signed two years ago.

    You can’t falsify history. The treaty we signed states that Macedonia can’t have territorial and historic aspirations toward us. It is written. What do you mean no ultimatums? It is written in the treaty. There are mechanisms in the treaty. It is not an ultimatum, we will simply stop supporting them. We tell them, you are not ready, you will wait a little while longer until you learn European manners and read the real history. A significant portion of the people in Macedonia expect this to happen, not for the sake of the EU but because they know that we are one people, Karakacanov said.

    Comment

    • vicsinad
      Senior Member
      • May 2011
      • 2337

      How many of us on this forum called this two years ago?

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15658

        The Dumbadonians acquiesced to the Greeks. They will do the same with the Bulgarians.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • Gocka
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2012
          • 2306

          Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
          How many of us on this forum called this two years ago?
          Well I know a couple of chulushpari from the USA who certainly thought so.

          I wish there was betting on this tragedy, we would be very rich men by now. Its all so predictable.

          Comment

          • JPMKD
            Member
            • Mar 2016
            • 101

            LMFAO!
            This was so easy to see coming. Honestly, some days I winder why I even try explaining things to people. I mean hell, our own "people" won't stand up for any shred of dignaty.
            Hell a few weeks back I was in the Macedonian colony of Michigan, USA. My cousin said her dad was in "stari cre" I said "Oh, severne Makedonia, northfyromania or whatever they are calling it nowdays". She kinda laughed and didn't get it. Her dad, I already know he "really doeasn't like what they did".
            Combine that with what Germany just did...The Greeks and Bulgarians must be laughing their assess off.
            Not a Northadonian

            Comment

            • Pelagonija
              Member
              • Mar 2017
              • 533

              For Stevo Pedarovski "Goce Delcev is the Red line"

              Will the Northerners declare GD Bulgarian for the sake of EU membership.

              Заев и Борисов со меѓусебни пораки за ликот и делото на Гоце Делчев. Бугарскиот премиер бара да созрееме. Неговиот македонски колега смета дека тоа треба да е заеднички процес. За Претседателот Пендаровски, Гоце Делчев е граница која државата не би можела да ја премине. Во интервју за Еуроактив, тој вели дека постои голем потенцијал за зголемување на тензиите со Бугарија поради работата на мешовитата комисија, за која според Пендаровски, бугарите се жалат во Брисел дека таа не дава резултати.

              Comment

              • Pelagonija
                Member
                • Mar 2017
                • 533

                Bravo Kate Mori Kate:

                Zaharieva: Goce Delcev was a Bulgarian, and if no agreement is reached we will end our work with “North Macedonia”

                Comment

                • vicsinad
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2011
                  • 2337

                  This is how shallow Macedonians' logic is. Pendarovski says Goce Delcev is a red line and his legacy can't be negotiated. But what about the reasons we celebrate Goce Delcev? Practically all of those have been negotiated away, eg. our name, identity, dignity, cultuer, and so forth.

                  Pendarovski is afraid of losing votes and that's it. Thank Macedonia's lucky stars SDS is composed of socialists, Yugo fanatics and Srbomani. Otherwise Zaev and Dimitrov would've sold Delcev to the Bulgarians by now.

                  Comment

                  • Niko777
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 1895

                    Pendarovski: Delchev declared himself a Bulgarian and fought for an independent Macedonian state

                    Source: https://www.slobodnaevropa.mk/a/30013271.html

                    Comment

                    • vicsinad
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2011
                      • 2337

                      That's a misleading headline. The article says this:

                      Тој во интервјуто изјави дека проблемот со дебатата за Гоце Делчев ќе стане политички проблем, ако продолжи ваквиот пристап на бугарската страна и дека Гоце Делчев се декларирал за Бугарин и во исто време се борел за самостојна македонска држава.

                      Comment

                      • Niko777
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 1895

                        Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                        That's a misleading headline. The article says this:

                        Тој во интервјуто изјави дека проблемот со дебатата за Гоце Делчев ќе стане политички проблем, ако продолжи ваквиот пристап на бугарската страна и дека Гоце Делчев се декларирал за Бугарин и во исто време се борел за самостојна македонска држава.
                        The Bulgarian media is coming up with even more misleading headlines

                        Macedonian President: Gotse Delchev is Bulgarian


                        Source: http://bnr.bg/post/101135356/makedon...qFuU9PNgqJvRFI

                        But this is their quote:

                        „Гоце Делчев се е борел за автономия на Македония, за независима държава, та дори в края на живота си прави завещание неговите кости да почиват в независима македонска държава. С една дума, както казват някои политици: истината и само истината - така да бъде. Безспорна историческа истина е, че той се е определял като българин. Безспорна историческа истина е фактът, че се е борел за македонска държава. Ето я формулировката, дайте да я подпишем и да не създаваме проблеми там, където не трябва да има. Ние като държава не може да преглътнем тезата, че през 1944 г. сме се събудили една сутрин като македонци. Дайте оттук нататък да разговаряме, защото този политически подход няма да ни доведе до никъде“, казва още Пендаровски.

                        Comment

                        • Carlin
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3332

                          A few relevant videos/debates on this topic if anyone is interested:

                          Виктор Канзуров и Тодор Петров во „Само Вистина“ 21.6.2019 1 дел


                          Виктор Канзуров и Тодор Петров во „Само Вистина“ 21.6.2019 2 дел


                          Тема: Гоце Делчев различно димензиониран од македонската и бугарската комисија


                          24 Отворено - Што стои зад бугарскиот обид за проблематизирање на историјата?
                          Што стои зад бугарскиот обид за проблематизирање на историјата? Дали Бојко Борисов игра двојна игра? Моштите на Делчев во Скопје - како оставштина за македо...

                          Comment

                          • Gocka
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2012
                            • 2306

                            Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                            That's a misleading headline. The article says this:

                            Тој во интервјуто изјави дека проблемот со дебатата за Гоце Делчев ќе стане политички проблем, ако продолжи ваквиот пристап на бугарската страна и дека Гоце Делчев се декларирал за Бугарин и во исто време се борел за самостојна македонска држава.
                            The Balkans don't have journalism, only tabloids that pretend to be news outlets.

                            Remember all the way back when warned people that as soon as we capitulate to Greece that Bulgaria will be next in line? Yeah it took a whole few months for that to happen.

                            Personally for me this is worse. Antiquity, although important, is still antiquity. The bulgars are going after the people who founded our modern nation. The people who make up our modern identity. If you walk away from Delcev and others like him, what is left? At that point you are starting an identity from scratch in 2019.

                            If you let the Bulgars push you around you have really hit rock bottom.

                            Comment

                            • Risto the Great
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 15658

                              I'd say the new identity started around 1995.
                              Risto the Great
                              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13670

                                Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                                Pendarovski says Goce Delcev is a red line and his legacy can't be negotiated.
                                That's priceless. He must've forgotten that he and his fellow traitors already accepted an agreement which specifically refers to their "history" as "distinctly different" from the area where Delcev was born. They already gave up his soul to Greece. Now all that is left is to give his body to Bulgaria.
                                Pendarovski is afraid of losing votes and that's it. Thank Macedonia's lucky stars SDS is composed of socialists, Yugo fanatics and Srbomani.
                                Yugo fanatics and srbomani couldn't care less about Delcev. I don't think they're what's holding back him and the other two morons you mentioned.
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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