The Macedonian island of Taso

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  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332

    #16
    Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
    To my knowledge, the only island in Macedonia is Taso/Тasos (Thassos in Greek).

    I was hoping someone might have some information on the history and ethnology of this island. Macedonian wikipedia mentions that the island used to be of mixed ethnicity and that the Macedonian population were persecuted during the Balkan Wars but I was hoping for some more informaiton and evidence.

    Macedonian toponyms are also welcome, I know the main settlement on the island is called 'Боровец' ('Limenas' in Greek) but if anyone knows the Macedonian names for the other settlements that would be great.

    AD 365: A terrible earthquake brings destruction, and parts of the island disappear beneath the sea.
    565: The island is occupied by the Arabs, but liberated again by Heraclitus.
    7th Century: The rise of piracy in the Aegean.
    765: Thassos is pillaged by Slav pirates.
    900: Occupied by the Saracens.
    961: The Saracens are defeated by Nicephorus Phocas, and withdraw.
    1161: The French count Raymond de Poitiers seizes, pillages and destroys the island. The inhabitants are sold into slavery.
    1327: The Byzantine emperor Andronicus III brings new settlers to the island, whose population has declined. These new settlers were Cumans,
    as can been seen in the links provided below.


    (Andronicus brought Cuman settlers to Thassos, Lemnos and Lesbos.)

    Links:


    First published in 1989. This volume includes twelve of the main papers given at the Joint Meeting of the XXII Spring Symposium of Byzantine Studies and of the Society for the Study of the Crusades and the Latin East held at the University of Nottingham from 26-29 March 1988. The Conference brought together a wide range of scholars and dealt with four main themes: relations between native Greeks and western settlers in the states founded by the Latin conquerors in former Byzantine lands in the wake of the Fourth Crusade; the Byzantine successor states at Nicaea, Epirus, and Thessalonica; the influence of the Italian maritime communes on the eastern Mediterranean in the later Middle Ages and the Renaissance; and the impact on Christian societies there of the Mongols and the Ottoman Turks, as well as the perception of Greeks and Latins by other groups in the eastern Mediterranean.

    In The Byzantine Turks, 1204–1461 Rustam Shukurov offers an account of the Turkic minority in Late Byzantium including the Nicaean, Palaiologan, and Grand Komnenian empires. The demography of the Byzantine Turks and the legal and cultural aspects of their entrance into Greek society are discussed in detail. Greek and Turkish bilingualism of Byzantine Turks and Tourkophonia among Greeks were distinctive features of Byzantine society of the time. Basing his arguments upon linguistic, social, and cultural evidence found in a wide range of Greek, Latin, and Oriental sources, Rustam Shukurov convincingly demonstrates how Oriental influences on Byzantine life led to crucial transformations in Byzantine mentality, culture, and political life. The study is supplemented with an etymological lexicon of Oriental names and words in Byzantine Greek.


    1) Max Vasmer wrote the following regarding Thassos, in his Die Slaven in Griechenland (in German):

    An slavisch deutbaren Namen ist mir nur im nordwestlichen Teil der Insel der ON Βουλγάρο (Vulgáro) bei Conze, Reise 40, auf Karten auch Volgaro, aufgefallen, letzteres auch bei Miller, Athos 180 (Karte). Der Name ist zweifellos mit dem Namen der Bulgaren *bъlgarinъ, abulg. *blъgarinъ zu verbinden. Solange keine andern slavischen Namen auf Thasos verzeichnet worden sind, ist es schwer zu entscheiden, ob es sich hier um eine vereinzelte Ansiedlung von Slaven durch die Griechen oder um eine Spur mittelalterlicher Slaven handelt, die im Zusammenhange mit der großen Slaveninvasion hier eingedrungen sein könnten. Vgl. auch Šišmanov, Bъlg. Prěgled IV, Nr. 3 S. 84. Von zufällig im 19. Jahrhundert nach Thasos verschlagenen Bulgaren weiß Dimitsas II 848 ff. zu berichten. Schwyzer sieht in Βουλγάρο einen Gen. pl. Βουλγάρων.

    2) It is mentioned by the locals that crews of Arvanites have constructed buildings (on Thassos), whose morphology places them in the 19th century. Many builders and constructors also came from Epirus and Bulgaria.

    Thassos Architecture. The remaining traditional houses of Thassos are dated back from the 1800’s.

    Η Αρχιτεκτονική της Θάσου. Τα διασωθέντα παραδοσιακά σπίτια της Θάσου χρονολογούνται από το 1800 και μετά. Οι κατασκευαστές τους ήταν μετακινούμενοι έμπειροι μάστορες αλλά και ντόπιοι, αυτοί που θα χαρακτηρίζαμε ως λαϊκούς αρχιτέκτονες.


    3) Edinburgh History of the Greeks, 1453 to 1768, By Molly Greene

    Page 89: The Ottomans took Thassos and Samothrace by force and many of their inhabitants were then sent to Istanbul, where Mehmet's project to rebuild the city was in full swing (Topping 1986: 226).

    This volume considers the period of Ottoman rule in Greek history in light of changing scholarship about this era and makes it accessible for the first time to a wider audience.
    Last edited by Carlin; 06-03-2017, 08:22 PM.

    Comment

    • Liberator of Makedonija
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2014
      • 1595

      #17
      Originally posted by Skolovranec View Post
      I'd also point that there are around 13.000 residents there present-day. What happened since 1900? Population burnout?
      The non-Greek speaking population was forced off the island in 1913.
      I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

      Comment

      • Skolovranec
        Junior Member
        • Mar 2017
        • 52

        #18
        Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
        The non-Greek speaking population was forced off the island in 1913.
        I know that, i just wanted an answer from the naysayers. Even the Bulgarian document lists only 3 Bulgarians but that doesn't explain everything else.
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        • Amphipolis
          Banned
          • Aug 2014
          • 1328

          #19
          Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
          The non-Greek speaking population was forced off the island in 1913.
          Originally posted by Skolovranec View Post
          I know that, i just wanted an answer from the naysayers. Even the Bulgarian document lists only 3 Bulgarians but that doesn't explain everything else.
          15 people do not make a population (see post#9) and that should also be reflected in Bulgarian demographic research of the late 1890s or early 1900s.

          Comment

          • Liberator of Makedonija
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2014
            • 1595

            #20
            Good stuff Carlin
            I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

            Comment

            • Skolovranec
              Junior Member
              • Mar 2017
              • 52

              #21
              Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
              15 people do not make a population (see post#9) and that should also be reflected in Bulgarian demographic research of the late 1890s or early 1900s.
              It seems those 15 were what kept the overall population alive then. You also do realize that many Macedonians identify as Greek or Bulgarian too, right? Just because it says Greek, doesn't mean that they were.
              Anti-EU Pro-Guns National-Libertarian Trekkie Minarchist
              Anti-NATO Pro-United MK Agnostic Secularist Magick Occultist
              Anti-UN Pro-Military Meritocratic Integrationist Altruistic Socio-Darwinist
              Anti-Globalist Pro-Choice Intellectual Pirate Spiritual Vagabond

              Comment

              • tchaiku
                Member
                • Nov 2016
                • 786

                #22
                Any census on Aegean Macedonia?

                Comment

                • Liberator of Makedonija
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2014
                  • 1595

                  #23
                  Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                  Any census on Aegean Macedonia?
                  Modern or Historical?
                  I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                  Comment

                  • tchaiku
                    Member
                    • Nov 2016
                    • 786

                    #24
                    Before the Anatolian migrants. You know 19/20th century.

                    Comment

                    • Amphipolis
                      Banned
                      • Aug 2014
                      • 1328

                      #25
                      It's in post#2, though I don't remember the source now. According to the following link, the 1904 Himli Passa census did not even record the few Turks and gave 100% Greeks (Romans). The breakdown of the Christians comes (I guess) from the Bulgarian studies.

                      This website is for sale! hellinon.net is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, hellinon.net has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

                      Comment

                      • tchaiku
                        Member
                        • Nov 2016
                        • 786

                        #26
                        I dont see anything about Aegean. Those vilayets that are mentioned include a much larger territory.

                        Comment

                        • maco2envy
                          Member
                          • Jan 2015
                          • 288

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                          It's in post#2, though I don't remember the source now. According to the following link, the 1904 Himli Passa census did not even record the few Turks and gave 100% Greeks (Romans). The breakdown of the Christians comes (I guess) from the Bulgarian studies.

                          http://www.hellinon.net/EthnologikiMakedonia.htm
                          This census was based on church followed not language and culture.

                          Comment

                          • Liberator of Makedonija
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 1595

                            #28
                            Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                            Before the Anatolian migrants. You know 19/20th century.
                            I'm a bit lost, do you mean a census of the entirety of Aegean Macedonia or just a census of Taso?
                            I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                            Comment

                            • tchaiku
                              Member
                              • Nov 2016
                              • 786

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Carlin View Post
                              AD 365: A terrible earthquake brings destruction, and parts of the island disappear beneath the sea.
                              565: The island is occupied by the Arabs, but liberated again by Heraclitus.
                              7th Century: The rise of piracy in the Aegean.
                              765: Thassos is pillaged by Slav pirates.
                              900: Occupied by the Saracens.
                              961: The Saracens are defeated by Nicephorus Phocas, and withdraw.
                              1161: The French count Raymond de Poitiers seizes, pillages and destroys the island. The inhabitants are sold into slavery.
                              1327: The Byzantine emperor Andronicus III brings new settlers to the island, whose population has declined. These new settlers were Cumans,
                              as can been seen in the links provided below.


                              (Andronicus brought Cuman settlers to Thassos, Lemnos and Lesbos.)

                              Links:


                              First published in 1989. This volume includes twelve of the main papers given at the Joint Meeting of the XXII Spring Symposium of Byzantine Studies and of the Society for the Study of the Crusades and the Latin East held at the University of Nottingham from 26-29 March 1988. The Conference brought together a wide range of scholars and dealt with four main themes: relations between native Greeks and western settlers in the states founded by the Latin conquerors in former Byzantine lands in the wake of the Fourth Crusade; the Byzantine successor states at Nicaea, Epirus, and Thessalonica; the influence of the Italian maritime communes on the eastern Mediterranean in the later Middle Ages and the Renaissance; and the impact on Christian societies there of the Mongols and the Ottoman Turks, as well as the perception of Greeks and Latins by other groups in the eastern Mediterranean.

                              In The Byzantine Turks, 1204–1461 Rustam Shukurov offers an account of the Turkic minority in Late Byzantium including the Nicaean, Palaiologan, and Grand Komnenian empires. The demography of the Byzantine Turks and the legal and cultural aspects of their entrance into Greek society are discussed in detail. Greek and Turkish bilingualism of Byzantine Turks and Tourkophonia among Greeks were distinctive features of Byzantine society of the time. Basing his arguments upon linguistic, social, and cultural evidence found in a wide range of Greek, Latin, and Oriental sources, Rustam Shukurov convincingly demonstrates how Oriental influences on Byzantine life led to crucial transformations in Byzantine mentality, culture, and political life. The study is supplemented with an etymological lexicon of Oriental names and words in Byzantine Greek.


                              1) Max Vasmer wrote the following regarding Thassos, in his Die Slaven in Griechenland (in German):

                              An slavisch deutbaren Namen ist mir nur im nordwestlichen Teil der Insel der ON Βουλγάρο (Vulgáro) bei Conze, Reise 40, auf Karten auch Volgaro, aufgefallen, letzteres auch bei Miller, Athos 180 (Karte). Der Name ist zweifellos mit dem Namen der Bulgaren *bъlgarinъ, abulg. *blъgarinъ zu verbinden. Solange keine andern slavischen Namen auf Thasos verzeichnet worden sind, ist es schwer zu entscheiden, ob es sich hier um eine vereinzelte Ansiedlung von Slaven durch die Griechen oder um eine Spur mittelalterlicher Slaven handelt, die im Zusammenhange mit der großen Slaveninvasion hier eingedrungen sein könnten. Vgl. auch Šišmanov, Bъlg. Prěgled IV, Nr. 3 S. 84. Von zufällig im 19. Jahrhundert nach Thasos verschlagenen Bulgaren weiß Dimitsas II 848 ff. zu berichten. Schwyzer sieht in Βουλγάρο einen Gen. pl. Βουλγάρων.

                              2) It is mentioned by the locals that crews of Arvanites have constructed buildings (on Thassos), whose morphology places them in the 19th century. Many builders and constructors also came from Epirus and Bulgaria.

                              Thassos Architecture. The remaining traditional houses of Thassos are dated back from the 1800’s.

                              Η Αρχιτεκτονική της Θάσου. Τα διασωθέντα παραδοσιακά σπίτια της Θάσου χρονολογούνται από το 1800 και μετά. Οι κατασκευαστές τους ήταν μετακινούμενοι έμπειροι μάστορες αλλά και ντόπιοι, αυτοί που θα χαρακτηρίζαμε ως λαϊκούς αρχιτέκτονες.


                              3) Edinburgh History of the Greeks, 1453 to 1768, By Molly Greene

                              Page 89: The Ottomans took Thassos and Samothrace by force and many of their inhabitants were then sent to Istanbul, where Mehmet's project to rebuild the city was in full swing (Topping 1986: 226).

                              https://books.google.ca/books?id=0Dw...hassos&f=false
                              Bump.

                              Comment

                              • Liberator of Makedonija
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2014
                                • 1595

                                #30
                                Don't think there's a whole lot to say about Taso to be honest.
                                I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                                Comment

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