Birthplace of Phillip

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  • Stevce
    Member
    • Jan 2016
    • 200

    Birthplace of Phillip

    Hi guys, has anyone else heard of this before. OR read about it anywhere.

    There also used to be a town in the vicinity, which the villagers consider to be the birthplace of King Philip because historical dates claim that he descended from the mountains and built and Železna Porta and Pella. The closest mountain to the north-west of Pella is exactly this one in Mariovo
  • Amphipolis
    Banned
    • Aug 2014
    • 1328

    #2
    Originally posted by Stevce View Post
    Hi guys, has anyone else heard of this before. OR read about it anywhere.

    There also used to be a town in the vicinity, which the villagers consider to be the birthplace of King Philip because historical dates claim that he descended from the mountains and built and Železna Porta and Pella. The closest mountain to the north-west of Pella is exactly this one in Mariovo
    I just deleted it, as there is no such story in the indicated source.

    Comment

    • GStojanov
      Junior Member
      • Mar 2010
      • 69

      #3
      And I undid your edit. There is no reason to delete it unless you can prove that such legend does not exist.

      Comment

      • Stevce
        Member
        • Jan 2016
        • 200

        #4
        Has anyone ever heard of this. Or know of the sources?

        Comment

        • Rogi
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 2343

          #5
          This is the first time I'm hearing of King Philip originating specifically from Mariovo.

          My family, on my Mother's side originates from there and I know of a bunch of folk tales around an old city they refer to as "Tsarigrad" that is yet undiscovered, as well as stories of ancient stone walls being found (one such story in my own family when a horse fell through the ground when ploughing the field), and I know a few thousand ancient Macedonian coins have been discovered there (many of which are now held by the bank in Ohrid)... but no specific references that I know of to Philip.

          Comment

          • Stevce
            Member
            • Jan 2016
            • 200

            #6
            Thanks Rogi, hope they find Tsarigrad.

            Comment

            • Amphipolis
              Banned
              • Aug 2014
              • 1328

              #7
              This is the source (page 13). The location now is Pesta, not Polcista



              There's also bibliography in the end, but it would be too much to ask for a specific reference on this thing.

              Comment

              • GStojanov
                Junior Member
                • Mar 2010
                • 69

                #8
                The place Peshta is between villages: Staravina and Gradeshnica. It is 30 km to the north west of Postol (the ancient Pella). So if Philip was born in the highlands in the vicinity of Pella, Mariovo is the closest highlands to Pella.

                The name Peshta is also interesting. It comes from old IE root that means flat area where people assemble for trade and fun, like fairgrounds. Budapesht was created when the town Buda (which means fortress) was joined to the town Peshta.

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  #9
                  Originally posted by GStojanov View Post
                  And I undid your edit. There is no reason to delete it unless you can prove that such legend does not exist.
                  Bravo.


                  I wonder if anybody has the hatred (and meaninglessness in their lives) to run around deleting Greek legends on Wikipedia.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    #10
                    Originally posted by GStojanov View Post
                    And I undid your edit. There is no reason to delete it unless you can prove that such legend does not exist.

                    Comment

                    • tchaiku
                      Member
                      • Nov 2016
                      • 786

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                      I wonder if anybody has the hatred (and meaninglessness in their lives) to run around deleting Greek legends on Wikipedia.
                      Good one.


                      --

                      Comment

                      • Momce Makedonce
                        Member
                        • Jul 2012
                        • 562

                        #12
                        Originally posted by GStojanov View Post
                        The place Peshta is between villages: Staravina and Gradeshnica. It is 30 km to the north west of Postol (the ancient Pella). So if Philip was born in the highlands in the vicinity of Pella, Mariovo is the closest highlands to Pella.

                        The name Peshta is also interesting. It comes from old IE root that means flat area where people assemble for trade and fun, like fairgrounds. Budapesht was created when the town Buda (which means fortress) was joined to the town Peshta.
                        I had a look on Google maps and can't help but think Postol/Pella looks more than 30km away from Peshta? Also as I zoom in there seems to be other mountains to the northwest of Pella including Mt Paiko not too far away and Mt Kajmakcalan on the modern day border.

                        Am I missing something? I typed in Pella on Google maps and pretty sure it's the right one as I can see on the map the archeological site. I have never visited there so just going off what I can see on Google maps.

                        But considering the proximity of Mariovo and the legend it could well be plausible.
                        Last edited by Momce Makedonce; 03-30-2020, 08:17 AM.
                        "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task." Goce Delcev

                        Comment

                        • Amphipolis
                          Banned
                          • Aug 2014
                          • 1328

                          #13
                          He probably meant 30km straight line. The distance, either in walking passages or through modern roads is about 170-180km.

                          Comment

                          • GStojanov
                            Junior Member
                            • Mar 2010
                            • 69

                            #14
                            You are correct. Pella is more like 50 km away according to google maps. I was looking at a map on wikipedia that is skewed. Plus the land route would have to go around Kaimakchalan, through Lerin and Ostrovo.

                            AFIK the Greek theory is that the original Macedonians are from the highlands of Karakamen planina (Gramos) which is at least 100 km to the west. That may be very well so, but that mountain is rugged and can't support a large population.

                            On the other hand Pellagonia is a highland plain (800m above sea level), so it is highlands compared to Pella (almost at sea level). It can support much bigger population because it is a fertile plain. Both Peshta and the birthplace of Philip's mother: Heraclea Linkesta are on the edges of the the southern Pellagonia, just 10 km apart.

                            Plus the name is strikingly similar (Pellagonia vs Pella). There are many finds on the outskirts of Pellagonia that go back to Ancient Macedonia and further back into the iron and bronze age.

                            Comment

                            • Momce Makedonce
                              Member
                              • Jul 2012
                              • 562

                              #15
                              Originally posted by GStojanov View Post
                              You are correct. Pella is more like 50 km away according to google maps. I was looking at a map on wikipedia that is skewed. Plus the land route would have to go around Kaimakchalan, through Lerin and Ostrovo.

                              AFIK the Greek theory is that the original Macedonians are from the highlands of Karakamen planina (Gramos) which is at least 100 km to the west. That may be very well so, but that mountain is rugged and can't support a large population.

                              On the other hand Pellagonia is a highland plain (800m above sea level), so it is highlands compared to Pella (almost at sea level). It can support much bigger population because it is a fertile plain. Both Peshta and the birthplace of Philip's mother: Heraclea Linkesta are on the edges of the the southern Pellagonia, just 10 km apart.

                              Plus the name is strikingly similar (Pellagonia vs Pella). There are many finds on the outskirts of Pellagonia that go back to Ancient Macedonia and further back into the iron and bronze age.
                              It's a decent theory, and Mariovo is much closer to Pella than Gramos. You are right there are actually a couple of ancient Macedonian cities in Pelagonia, we all know about Hereklea but there is also Styberra in the Prilep region which I have been doing some reading on. Then there is the Macedonian tomb that was found in Bonce, also in Prilep region. There were cities that were located near the locations of modern day villages in Pelagonia that have never been discovered in the Bitola-Prilep area either.
                              "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task." Goce Delcev

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