International Court of Justice - Macedonia and Greece

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  • Dimko-piperkata
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 1876

    International Court of Justice - Macedonia and Greece

    Skopje /17/11/ 16:23

    Macedonia has lodged a suit against Greece at the International Court of Justice in The Hague (ICJ), Macedonian Foreign Ministry announced.

    Macedonia filed an Application to the Court Registry, asking ICJ "to establish and declare that (Greece) through its state bodies and authorized officials violated Article 11, Paragraph 1 of the Interim Agreement."

    The Application also requests from the Court "to order (Greece) to take all necessary steps to ensure respecting of the obligations stipulated in the Article 11, Paragraph 1 of the Interim Agreement and to refrain from direct or indirect opposing to the membership (of Macedonia) in the North-Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO)."

    At the press conference staged Monday in the government's premises, Foreign Minister Antonio Milososki said that this move does not imply suspending of the talks over the Greece's problem with the constitutional name of Macedonia, but is aimed exclusively to ensuring proper implementation of the Interim Agreement.

    He added that the Application was submitted now in order to create certain conditions and by incorporating all aspects of the issue.

    According to Milososki, the International Court of Justice should make a ruling that will be binding to both sides.
    1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...
    2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum...
  • Jankovska
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 1774

    #2
    Good, about time.

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      #3
      This has been a long time coming.
      In fairness to Macedonia, I am sure there was much banter at political levels to avoid unnecessary litigation. This will be difficult for the Greeks to defend. And is all about Macedonia NOT being the victim in this process anymore. Excellent stuff. Thanks Dimko
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Venom
        Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 445

        #4
        About time! The most important development to date, I reckon.

        Why do you think they suddenly got the courage to do now, what they should of started a long time ago?
        S m r t - i l i - S l o b o d a

        Comment

        • Dimko-piperkata
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 1876

          #5
          Skopje informs of file against Greece

          ANKARA - The foreign minister of Macedonia, Antonio Milososki, has sent a letter to his Turkish counterpart, Ali Babacan, personally notifying him of a file Macedonia referred to an international court against Greece, it has been revealed.

          Macedonia lodged the complaint Nov. 17 at the International Court of Justice at The Hague after Athens blocked its bid to join NATO due to an ongoing dispute over naming rights. It was not immediately clear when the court would hear the case.

          "The difference over the constitutional name of the Republic of Macedonia is not the subject matter of our application with the International Court of Justice. The Republic of Macedonia remains strongly committed to the process of negotiations with Greece, mediated by the special envoy of the U.N. Secretary-General," Milososki told Babacan in the letter, learned the Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review.

          "I strongly believe that the full respect of the Interim Accord would be in the interest of both countries and would positively influence development of friendly and good-neighborly relations," he said to Babacan.

          Macedonia says Greece has violated a 1995 interim accord obliging Athens not to object to its membership in NATO or any other international organizations. Greece wants Macedonia to change its name on the grounds the name implies a territorial claim against the Greek region of Macedonia. Negotiations between the two countries are deadlocked at the United Nations.

          At the last NATO summit in April, Greece blocked Macedonia's bid to join the alliance, while Albania and Croatia were invited to enter. Turkey, the first country to recognize Macedonia and to assign an ambassador to Skopje, is one of the strongest advocates of the country's membership in NATO.

          A Turkish diplomat told the Daily News that Macedonia must be subjected to the same criteria as other candidates. "Bilateral disputes should not hijack Macedonia's participation in international organizations," said the diplomat, who wished to remain anonymous.

          Turkey recognizes Macedonia by its constitutional name.
          ANKARA - The foreign minister of Macedonia, Antonio Milososki, has sent a letter to his Turkish counterpart, Ali Babacan, personally notifying him of a file...
          1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...
          2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum...

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            #6
            Turkey recognizes Macedonia by its constitutional name.
            If it does, why the bullshit subject title heading .... (Skopje/Greece)
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              #7
              Macedonian case against Greece reaches World Court on July 20



              Nikola Dimitrov, former Macedonian representative in the country’s dispute with Greece about the use of the name Macedonia, is to present a report on Macedonia’s complaint against Greece to the International Court of Justice in The Hague on July 20 2009, Macedonian A1 television channel said, quoted by Bulgarian news agency Focus.

              The argumentation says that Greece violated article 11 of the 1995 Interim Agreement by blocking Macedonia’s Nato membership invitation at the Bucharest summit in April 2008.

              The text contains all statements by senior Greek officials, as well as publications with arguments against Greece, the television station said.

              Greece is to reply within a deadline set by the court. After that, towards the middle of next year, the oral hearing will begin.

              The Greek foreign ministry said that its negotiator in the name dispute, Adamantios Vassilakis, briefed ambassadors of EU and Nato countries on July 17 2009 "on the course of the negotiations within the framework of the UN".
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Pelister
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 2742

                #8
                I have mixed feelings about this. What if it goes against us?

                I think they should pursue this "discussion" they are having with Greece on the floor of U.N headquarters - and put it to a vote, and then another vote, if they have to.

                End this one on one garbage with Greece.

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  #9
                  Not that I am for NATO in any major way, but I like the idea of International courts hearing about such silly standover tactics by Greece. At some point surely Human Rights would be considered in an international court?

                  Win or lose, it is still worth a public airing.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Dimko-piperkata
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1876

                    #10
                    Macedonia to present evidence against Greece before ICJ

                    Macedonia on Monday will present to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) a memorandum with written evidence in connection to dispute with Greece.

                    Macedonia has launched a complaint against Greece for breaching an UN-backed Interim Accord of 1995 in a name row over its NATO membership. Greece vetoed Macedonia's NATO membership invitation at the Alliance's summit in Bucharest last April.

                    The memorandum contains statements by Greek officials and texts to serve as argument in the trial.

                    Greece is set to present its own arguments. The trial is expected to continue next year.
                    1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...
                    2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum...

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13669

                      #11
                      How fruitful will this be? We will be talking about Human Rights and the Greeks will be throwing up smoke by complaining about parents in Macedonia naming their children Alexander.

                      What is the outcome if we win? Or lose? What next?
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13669

                        #12
                        From Dimko's thread:


                        Macedonia on Monday will present to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) a memorandum with written evidence in connection to dispute with Greece.

                        Macedonia has launched a complaint against Greece for breaching an UN-backed Interim Accord of 1995 in a name row over its NATO membership. Greece vetoed Macedonia's NATO membership invitation at the Alliance's summit in Bucharest last April.

                        The memorandum contains statements by Greek officials and texts to serve as argument in the trial.

                        Greece is set to present its own arguments. The trial is expected to continue next year.

                        http://makfax.com.mk/en-us/Details.aspx?ItemID=7079
                        For the sake of not having 2 threads on the same topic, we should try and keep information together.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15658

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                          What is the outcome if we win? Or lose? What next?
                          If we lose, we don't get into NATO I would imagine.
                          We don't have much to lose since that already is the case.

                          Here is the issue as it stands:
                          Macedonia contends that Greece vetoed its application to join NATO because Greece desires “to resolve the difference between the Parties concerning the constitutional name of the Applicant as an essential precondition” for Macedonia’s membership of NATO.
                          As a matter of law I would imagine they would look at whether the precondition is even warranted. But more importantly, hopefully the world will see what sort of racists would even consider such a precondition.
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

                          • Sv. Nikola
                            Junior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 43

                            #14
                            what is Nato Law" how we undewrstand or how is written

                            Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                            If we lose, we don't get into NATO I would imagine.
                            We don't have much to lose since that already is the case.

                            Here is the issue as it stands:


                            As a matter of law I would imagine they would look at whether the precondition is even warranted. But more importantly, hopefully the world will see what sort of racists would even consider such a precondition.
                            On this matter we should be proud because we stand as Macedonian, we have to show our point of view. Low is not one way street.
                            Yes justice is slow and sightless, how ever we have to stand up and challenge other and ourself.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13669

                              #15
                              Anybody have any news on this yet?
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

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