Greece executes 8 Macedonians (NY Times 1947)

[TrueMacedonian]

[thessalo-niki]

Really? Was that "terroristic Slav organization" called the Communist Party of Greece by any chance?
__________________________________
Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

[TrueMacedonian]

Yeah and? What's your point?

[Bill77]

Really? Was that "terroristic Slav organization" called the Communist Party of Greece by any chance?

I think greek propaganda would have made them out to be. i am not sure. But what i am sure about are two things.
A) A independent Macedonia was more at Heart than any theoretical economic system.

B) They fought against fascism which still exists in greece.

[TrueMacedonian]

Valid points Bill. Another reason why Macedonians turned to communism was to avoid Hellenization. Because Macedonia was never "greek" and had to be Hellenized and needed extreme human migrations in order to achieve a manufactured "greek macedonia" where fugees that spoke Turkish became the great ancestors of Alexandros

[Bratot]

Valid points Bill. Another reason why Macedonians turned to communism was to avoid Hellenization. Because Macedonia was never "greek" and had to be Hellenized and needed extreme human migrations in order to achieve a manufactured "greek macedonia" where fugees that spoke Turkish became the great ancestors of Alexandros

They had joined the Сommunist side-not so much from ideological conviction as from a desire to resist the forced hellenization imposed on them from Athens since 1919.




The emerging strategic environment Edited by Williamson Murray, Excerpt from Brian R. Sullivan, page 15:

[Bill77]

Has any one seen the movie, i think called "crven kojn"?

Where the Macedonian fighters in the civil/independence war in greece, that were sent to USSR and were forced by the Facist greek government to sign a document and admit they were communists, otherwise they would not allowed back in greece.

I am sure that the movie was based on true events. From memory the soldiers initially refused to sign but in the end had no alternative. Its kind of what currently bulgaria are doing, a Macedonian has to denounce his true ethnicity and sign to say they are bulgarian. Time will come were the Aegean refugees will have to sign that they are greek against there will to have any chance of returning to there land and then we will have knob heads like thesa asking "what do those signed documents say? are they grik?".

[Rogi]

Yes, I have 'Crveniot konj' somewhere on a DVD.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0446096/

[thessalo-niki]

Has any one seen the movie, i think called "crven kojn"?

Where the Macedonian fighters in the civil/independence war in greece, that were sent to USSR and were forced by the Facist greek government to sign a document and admit they were communists, otherwise they would not allowed back in greece.

That doesn't make any sense, either if it refers to the 40s, 50s, 60, 70s or 80s. Care to rephrase it, elaborate or see again what you've written?
I’m glad you’re interested in Greek Civil War, but… why don’t you read something about it? Anything. Even Risto Stefov’s chapters. I also remember some other weird posts about Kozani or Tashkent that didn’t make sense.
____________________________________
Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

[Soldier of Macedon]

Yeah and? What's your point?

What was your point thessaloniki? The article in the NYT refers to the Macedonians as....well, Macedonians.

[Bill77]

That doesn't make any sense,

What do you mean That doesn't make sense? I was talking about a Macedonian movie you fool. Go and watch it and you should understand it if you are truely a Macedonian.

either if it refers to the 40s, 50s, 60, 70s or 80s. Care to rephrase it, elaborate or see again what you've written?

If you think you knoiw your pathetic history, you would know which year or atleast decade,the civil/independence war was and roughly when the new Democratic Army or DAG (Demokratikos Stratos Elladas) Including Macedonian freedom fighting soldiers were evacuated after fighting against British/US backed Right wing Facist and Nazi collaborators.

I don't need to rephrase anything to a simpleton like you. I simply asked if anyone seen the movie which "allegedly" is based on true events that were described by people who lived it.

I’m glad you’re interested in Greek Civil War, but… why don’t you read something about it? Anything.

Stop being a malaka and learn your own history. its possibly i know more than you. I have read bits and peices about it infact iv'e posted something about it previously. Do your own search.

[Bill77]

Valid points Bill. Another reason why Macedonians turned to communism was to avoid Hellenization.

Hi TM.... i don't mean to go on about it, but Did they turn to communism? or did the communists take advantage of us and coaxed us to fight along side them because we had a common enemy, even though we might have had different goals and did not care about communism.

Quote Nikos Zachariadis a leader of the Greek Communist Party (KKE) in a speech at the Second Congress of the National Liberation Front during the Greek Civil war.

"This unity is an indispensable precondition for victory, for if we were to fight separately we would not be able to defeat monarchofascism".

If the "Two People" (Greeks and Macedonians) as he put it, were both communists, why would he try to sell unity if we were fighting the same ideological cause? I think he knew we were fighting the same enemy but fighting for different reasons.

It was appropriate for the monarchofascist Greeks to label us communists to excuse there actions (in horror camps) against the Macedonians and so to keep the west on there side.

Today Greeks, still like to call the Macedonian exiles "communists" to cover the fact that there were two causes of war.

[TrueMacedonian]

Hi TM.... i don't mean to go on about it, but Did they turn to communism? or did the communists take advantage of us and coaxed us to fight along side them because we had a common enemy, even though we might have had different goals and did not care about communism.

Interesting question Bill. And what you provided is a good reference. I have the book that Bratot posted a page from in post # 6. The references for that particular issue are mostly Grk sources, including Evangelos Kofos. I believe that Zachariades was most likely trying to get the Macedonians on board who were not at all interested in fighting at first and who did not go over to communism collectively with other Macedonians and minorities in 1919.
The KKE had its divisions about seperating Macedonia from Grcija. Here's one example;

When Dmitriy Manuilsky, a Ukranian Bolshevik, declared the following;

in Greek, Bulgarian, Serbian, and Albanian Macedonia there live a people who, independently of the ethnic diversity about them, have nurtured their own Macedonian historical traditions and are thus entitled to the unwritten law of national independence and sovereignty."

The Grk reaction, according to Serafim Maximos, was the following;

A United and Independent Macedonia was not acceptable to Communist Party in Greece because more than 700,000 Greek Refugees and workers now lived there and they were not disposed to accept Macedonian autonomy.

It may be possible that the Grk Coommunists created this division between Macedonian communists and themselves in the beginning. This may be why Zachariades made this statement.

[Risto the Great]

Hi TM.... i don't mean to go on about it, but Did they turn to communism? or did the communists take advantage of us and coaxed us to fight along side them because we had a common enemy, even though we might have had different goals and did not care about communism.

I am positive only a very few Macedonians read the Communist Manifesto and as a consequence barely understood communism. Has anyone read it here? You can download it for free everywhere.

The Macedonians fought to liberate Macedonia. The commies gave the impression that the only way this was possible was to fight with them. The commies and monarcofascists were all miserable war criminals that would not hold a candle to the Macedonian revolutionaries 50 years before them.

[thessalo-niki]

There are more than a hundred websites in Greek about it. I tried the automatic translation but the results are disappointing. This is an introduction to the issues:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uhrana

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNOF

Also, the first two links, in references are in English and quite extended.
Note: There are things I couldn't mention (cause you would ban me), but also things no one can change now, e.g. the name SNOF or the decisions and documents of the Greek Communist Party.
________________________________________
Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul