Greeks, seriously.

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  • Venom
    Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 445

    Greeks, seriously.

    Man I am wondering. With the banning of Royal Pain in the Butt and Traveller, I started thinking of the other grci on here and Maknews past. People like Mr Ed, imatosserios, Andy Sygross and the rest strike me as typical racist, slav-haters. They know not how to think for themselves, rather go through their textbook arguments of "undemocratic elections", "change your name because we want to be called Macedonians too", and "5 million years of Hellenic bullshit", over and over again. They simply cannot think outside the square for one second and see that maybe, just possibly greece is not that pure Hellenic paradise their media and government tells them it is.

    So seriously. Has anyone met a greek or knows of a greek or if there is a greek reading this that agrees and knows of what the true history of greece is. Of what happened in 1913. And of what happens in Northern greece this very day. Please if they do, send them on here, let's have a chat.

    For the record I am not trashing all greeks. I do have lots of friends who are greek and they often come with us for a few beers and etc. They have no interest in politics and typically share the same ideals we all share. They are good people. I am talking of the ones who would visit this forum or talk to a Macedonian but not necessarily post right away.
    S m r t - i l i - S l o b o d a
  • Giorikas
    Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 316

    #2
    It seems to me that for you a good Greek is a Greek that agrees with you. I find that a bit immature. The other good type is the one that does not express an opinion on the matter (at least in your face). I find that naive.

    Take care,

    Giorikas

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      #3
      Spartan strikes me as a Greek who would not back down on issues of significance to him.
      Nevertheless, he is not immersed in the GMLG (Great Macedonian Land Grab). And has no emotional attachment to the matter. But we had someone calling himself Alexander Downer saying he was from Lesbos ... then admitting soon after that his people came from Asia Minor a few generations earlier. It is quite the same thing, the most vocal about the Macedonian issue in Greece are the recent settlers from Asia Minor.

      The Greeks have been so conditioned that they are unable to see or accept the truth. Just like John Howard with the Aborigines, they will never say they are sorry because it will mean that will have to look deep within and see themselves for what they really are.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Giorikas
        Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 316

        #4
        Just your phrase ' The Greeks have been .... ' shows in my opinion immaturity. You can not believe the crap that both sides sometime express, yet I will not generalise like that. Your truth is in any case not objective, and neither is mine.

        As for Greeks from Minor Asia, they are as Greek as Greeks from any place in today's Greece. That is a truth for me.

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          #5
          Does it show immaturity OR does it show knowledge of the situation. I have been there many times. And I think I know how the nationalistic moulding takes place there.

          The truth for you is a convenient truth for you. The Minor Asian settlers may well be Greek in your "truth" but they are as Macedonian as my underpants are (... made in China I suppose).
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • Giorikas
            Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 316

            #6
            Hmm. You would find yourself (don't know whether you answered that question finally before I disappeared a time) holding a Australian passport (let's say) more Macedonian than an Albanian speaking person holding a Macedonian passport, who lives there, was born there and grew up there.
            You could even consider an Australian who doesn't speak Macedonian more 'ethnic' Macedonian then the person I just described. (many here would qualify who do not speak Macedonian and live in the diaspora)
            Funnily enough, you could consider some who identify themselves as Greek or Bulgarian (nothing else) even a degree higher 'ethnic' Macedonian then the above described Albanian speaking person. (The famous cross ethnic Grkoman, Bulgaroman, or Srboman sell out traiters who apperently are not allowed to identify themselves as anything they choose to).
            And then there is the question of those non-Macedonian residents, non-Macedonian speakers, not necessarily with Macedonian names, who do not hold a Macedonian passport and never will, who worship Macedonian heroes who declared themselves as non-Macedonian. (I refer to those heroes from the Balkan uprisings against the Ottomans)
            So I take your history lessons and truths about nationalities and the famous 'etnicities' with a very big pinch of salt if you don't mind.
            Last edited by Giorikas; 10-22-2008, 09:04 AM.

            Comment

            • Вардарец
              Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 122

              #7
              Giorkas, i think u have missed the concept of ethnicity.

              Wheter Risto lives in Australia, couldn't prounounce a word of Macedonian, it doesn't matter. His roots are Macedonian, ethnic Macedonian. Even if the Albanian lives 500 more years on Macedonian land, he will never be Macedonian as Risto and his descendants.

              It's like 2 + 2. Do they teach you that in school, or just that Aristotle invented the math?
              For the glory of the Hellenes! Abandon orthodoxy and join your true religion! http://www.hellenicreligion.gr/... Zeus awaits you!

              Comment

              • Giorikas
                Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 316

                #8
                Well, let me tell you that another word for that is racist. We live in 2008, and in 2008 if you hold a Macedonian passport, you are a Macedonian. If you don't, then you are somebody who self identifies as such, nothing more. That's ok though, you may do that. But officially it is like that and that's just as it is.

                It becomes a bit ridiculous though hearing stories from those persons who self identify with Macedonians, but have never set foot in that country that did not exist as such anyway up until recently, who do not have that passport and can not speak the language. This versus the (co-) Albanian - Macedonian speaker ( a real Macedonian in my definition versus light version self identifyer Macedonian like most of you here) who might trace his forefathers back to that same place as he still lives for hundreds of years, has never left his hometown, speaks both official languages of the country (Albanian and Macedonian), etc, etc. They are the Macedonians, not most of you. They have the passports to prove it and that passport is still valid until negotiations are finalized.
                You do the math Einstein, there are a few things seriously inconsistant here, and it's not in what I wrote.
                Thank God for your cause that it doesn't really have a serious platform to ventilate this racist Himmleresque theories, that would surely not help to reach your goals.

                Giorikas

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  #9
                  Giorikas, you make an excellent point. The ethnic Albanian in Macedonia would "tick more boxes" than me if we were going to assess their right to be called Macedonian. But their ethnicity holds them back behind me. Just like the Greeks do with Macedonians, Vlachs, Albanians .... I would have a little laugh behind their back if they tried to tell me how Macedonian they were. Because I know where my people came from and what they were before any modern nationalistic fantasies unfolded in my region of Macedonia.

                  The notion of a passport being proof of an ethnicity is absurd. Grow up and move forward on this issue, you know exactly what I am talking about. It was a common ploy by Greeks in the Diaspora who used to tell me to "look at my parent's passport". You know what ... I looked at my Great Grandmothers passport issued in "Salonika" in the 1950's and her names were ____opolou AND ___vski . So looking at that passport tells me someone can have 2 real surnames in Greece. ONLY IN GREECE. Nowhere in the rest of the world does this happen.

                  If Greece achieves a miracle and makes Macedonia call itself something else ... would the Albanians still be Macedonian under your definition? No they would be "Whatever" nationals. And the ethnic Macedonians would STILL be ethnic Macedonians living in a country with a different name. You might not understand this but try reading it a few times.

                  By the way, my Macedonian is perfectly understandable in the Republic and I can get by really well reading documents over there. I think I qualify and would most likely have stern words for someone if they felt I do not qualify. Nevertheless, I live in Australia and my future is here (for now).
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Venom
                    Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 445

                    #10
                    Gorillas, I love how you lajna twist words.

                    I don't expect anyone to agree with me on any one issue 100%. WHat I am asking though, in regards to this situation, is for a greek to come forward and explain about the Macedonians in Greece. Admit what happened in 1913. Agree that minorities are still, to this day persecuted in greece's borders.

                    You obviously don't agree with me so you call me immature. I think THAT is immature.

                    AND IF WE'RE TALKING NAIVETY -- let's talk about an entire fucking nation who believes every pitiful word their government spews forth.
                    S m r t - i l i - S l o b o d a

                    Comment

                    • Venom
                      Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 445

                      #11
                      Gorillas, you are dumber than your fucken name. Let's go over the bullshit you put forth:

                      Originally posted by Giorikas View Post
                      Well, let me tell you that another word for that is racist. We live in 2008, and in 2008 if you hold a Macedonian passport, you are a Macedonian. If you don't, then you are somebody who self identifies as such, nothing more. That's ok though, you may do that. But officially it is like that and that's just as it is.
                      That's insanely stupid. What the fuck does a passport have to do with who I am or you are or anyone else is, ethnically?!

                      Originally posted by Giorikas View Post
                      It becomes a bit ridiculous though hearing stories from those persons who self identify with Macedonians, but have never set foot in that country that did not exist as such anyway up until recently, who do not have that passport and can not speak the language.
                      I knoew greeks like this. What is your point?

                      How the FUCK did Macedonia not exist until recently you piece of shit?!

                      Originally posted by Giorikas View Post
                      This versus the (co-) Albanian - Macedonian speaker ( a real Macedonian in my definition versus light version self identifyer Macedonian like most of you here) who might trace his forefathers back to that same place as he still lives for hundreds of years, has never left his hometown, speaks both official languages of the country (Albanian and Macedonian), etc, etc. They are the Macedonians, not most of you. They have the passports to prove it and that passport is still valid until negotiations are finalized.
                      Now that is fucking ludicrous and the only point you wanted to make you fuckwit that Albanian is a language spoken in Macedonia. You KNOW you fuckwit the story behind that and you KNOW there are more Albanians in greece than in Macedonia. How the fuck would an Albanian be more of a Macedonian than me? Because of the passport. Read what Risto wrote. And you have the nerve to call me immature.

                      Originally posted by Giorikas View Post
                      You do the math Einstein, there are a few things seriously inconsistant here, and it's not in what I wrote.
                      Thank God for your cause that it doesn't really have a serious platform to ventilate this racist Himmleresque theories, that would surely not help to reach your goals.
                      Mate why don't YOU do the maths. You're about as dumb as they come so I'll explain it to you:

                      Without your little buddies in the EU propping you up, there'd be none of these issues.

                      So. Nothing you say is of any substance, and besides that I thought you were ignoring us. Please keep on doing so.

                      And the search continues for an open minded grk.
                      S m r t - i l i - S l o b o d a

                      Comment

                      • Pelister
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2742

                        #12
                        I think that many Greeks are changing the way they think. A few decades ago - there were no Macedonians - now we are Macedonians. So there has been a shift, along with a change of Greek government policy towards Macedonians in the late 1980's.

                        I have a friend whose grandparents came from Turkey in the population exchange - she toes the Greek line and never wavers - although she once slipped up before she knew I was a Macedonian and said he grandparents spoke Turkish. Her story is quite tragic - because she felt as though her family were uprooted from their traditional lands - and I had never heard this take on it before. That's the thing - they keep a lid on everything over there.

                        Comment

                        • Svoliani
                          Banned
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 93

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Вардарец View Post
                          Giorkas, i think u have missed the concept of ethnicity.

                          Wheter Risto lives in Australia, couldn't prounounce a word of Macedonian, it doesn't matter. His roots are Macedonian, ethnic Macedonian. Even if the Albanian lives 500 more years on Macedonian land, he will never be Macedonian as Risto and his descendants.

                          It's like 2 + 2. Do they teach you that in school, or just that Aristotle invented the math?
                          Hi, you are a smart chap
                          There is a whole thread in the History section about Greek Refugees who came to Greece and spoke Turkish. Your friends here find it mindboggling how a Greek can speak Turkish . They seem to think these people are Turks.
                          Please help them put 2 and 2 together!!!

                          Comment

                          • Risto the Great
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 15658

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Svoliani View Post
                            Hi, you are a smart chap
                            There is a whole thread in the History section about Greek Refugees who came to Greece and spoke Turkish. Your friends here find it mindboggling how a Greek can speak Turkish . They seem to think these people are Turks.
                            Please help them put 2 and 2 together!!!
                            So people who came from a different nation and pre-date the modern Greek identity and spoke a language that could not be understood by Greeks from Greece ... well ... they qualify as Greeks.

                            Mate, the ancient Athenians had very strict rules about who could be part of the "A Team" ... clearly this is not the case with the modern Greek identity.

                            If I cut you some slack and assume the Asia Minor settlers actually spoke a Hellenic language (irrespective of the fact they would use an abundance of Turkish words to describe emotions etc) then what you are saying is a French person living in Germany who moves to Italy is now embraced as an Italian.

                            .... Everything alright with that?

                            I will re-visit this in a moment.
                            Risto the Great
                            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                            Comment

                            • Alexander Downer
                              Junior Member
                              • Oct 2008
                              • 9

                              #15
                              Risto my South Ozzie mate.........lets get the facts correct. My mother's father was born in today's Turkey (asia minor) where 2 mil greeks previously lived. He was born in a coastal town that can still be seen from Lesbos, a few kilometres away. Its like living at at Cape Jervois and staring at Penneshaw on Kangaroo Island. He was an ethnic Greek. I have nothing to do with Greeks that moved to Greece-Macedonia. Most of the coastal Greeks got away as quick as they could to the nearest island they could find to avoid being slaughtered in 1922. The Greeks that got exchanged to Macedonia, correct me if I am wrong, predominately came from Constantinople and Pontus.

                              Risto, if I can accept your community, why do you deny the existance of Slav speaking Greeks, Greek speaking Greeks etc (excluding the Greek imports from asia minor) who lived in Macedonia and considered themselves part of the Greek nation.
                              Last edited by Alexander Downer; 10-22-2008, 08:52 PM.

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